SloMo from an EX1 ?? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old July 24th, 2008, 12:33 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Worcester. United Kingdom
Posts: 197
SloMo from an EX1 ??

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's managed to produce SloMo from a Sony EX1. (Using Mac in PAL land in particular).

Cinema Tools doesn't want to know 720p 50 fps (I followed the manual exactly but "Conform" was grayed out in the File menu). So where should I go from here?

I thought I'd cracked it with Compressor but on closer scrutiny, the best result I could get was choppy to say the least.

I've also tried Shake but no luck there either. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

Any help would be very welcome.
__________________
I taught you all I know and still you know nothing.
Andy Nickless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 01:58 AM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
I've shot loads of footage at 50P and it works fine for me playing back at 25fps in the FCP timeline.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 02:23 AM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Worcester. United Kingdom
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
I've shot loads of footage at 50P and it works fine for me playing back at 25fps in the FCP timeline.
In SLOW MOTION ??

I just changed my Easy Setup to 720p 25 fps, created a new timeline, checked the timeline was 25 fps - the footage simply plays at normal speed.
__________________
I taught you all I know and still you know nothing.
Andy Nickless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 03:51 AM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol UK
Posts: 1,271
I've shot slo-mo, viewed it in vegas and FCP, plays fine in both.
Recorded in 720/25p, frame rate at 60fps.

Paul.
__________________
Round 2
Panasonic HC-X1, Vinten PB, Sennheiser G3 bits. Vegas pro 14 on i7,AMD Radeon RX480 8GB.
Paul Kellett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 04:16 AM   #5
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Worcester. United Kingdom
Posts: 197
Thanks Paul and Alister.

Are you saying:
Shoot 720p at 50 (or 60 fps) then drop the QT into a 25 (or 30) fps timeline . . .
and it plays back in Slow Motion?

(Mine just plays at normal speed - unless I'm having a brain failure of some sort).
__________________
I taught you all I know and still you know nothing.
Andy Nickless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 04:33 AM   #6
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol UK
Posts: 1,271
Yes.
I record in 720/25p format then in slo-mo put the frame rate up to 60fps.
If you record in 720/50p then jumping up to 60fps isn't much difference, whereas 25 up to 60fps is.

Paul.
__________________
Round 2
Panasonic HC-X1, Vinten PB, Sennheiser G3 bits. Vegas pro 14 on i7,AMD Radeon RX480 8GB.
Paul Kellett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 04:42 AM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
As Paul points out you need to make sure your in the right mode. 720/50P shoots at 720 50fps and plays back at 50fps, so if you drop it in to a 25fps timeline or 50fps timeline it plays back at normal speed.

However if you shoot at HQ 720/25P and then turn on S&Q motion (camera settings page of the menu or press and hold the button on the EX3) and change the frame rate in the S&Q menu then you get slower or quicker than real time playback.

You can use S&Q motion at 1080P up to 30fps.

If you have shot at 720/50P then you can drop the clips into a 25P timeline and slow the clips down by 50% which should then play the clip at 25fps.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

Last edited by Alister Chapman; July 24th, 2008 at 04:44 AM. Reason: added menu info
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 04:42 AM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 52
Andy,
It sounds like you want to actually shoot slow-motion with the camera, and there is an easy way to do it. Set the camera to record at 720p HQ 25 frames per second as you would for a normal recording. Then in the camera menu turn on the S&Q setting, and dial in your frame rate up to 60 frames per second. The normal playback of the video will now be slow-motion, and you can drop the clip into a 25fps timeline and it will still be slow-motion. You can't record audio using this method, and you can only overcrank to 30 frames per second if you use 1080p 25. However, most of us think that you can drop a 720p overcranked shot into a 1080p timeline and the video will still look pretty good.
Just noticed that Alister had the posted the answer while I was typing.

Last edited by Patrick Williams; July 24th, 2008 at 04:46 AM. Reason: post above had the answer
Patrick Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 04:53 AM   #9
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Worcester. United Kingdom
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Kellett View Post
I record in 720/25p format then in slo-mo put the frame rate up to 60fps.
Sorry Paul, I think you've got this wrong.

The idea is to overcrank (record at 50 fps for example) in camera, then play back at the normal speed (25 fps over here) to get the most beautifully smooth slow motion.

With the method you're quoting, FCP does an awful job of interpolating (if there's action in the footage, which of course, there must be). It has to create frames to make the playback slower.

Please watch Michael Mench's tutorial on Slow Motion:
http://library.creativecow.net/artic...o-tutorial.php
It uses Shake but even if you don't have Shake, it's well worth watching the beginning to see what an awful job FCP makes of interpolation.

If you don't have Shake, try this method:
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage...es_motion.html
__________________
I taught you all I know and still you know nothing.
Andy Nickless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 05:01 AM   #10
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Worcester. United Kingdom
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Williams View Post
Set the camera to record at 720p HQ 25 frames per second as you would for a normal recording. Then in the camera menu turn on the S&Q setting, and dial in your frame rate up to 60 frames per second. The normal playback of the video will now be slow-motion, and you can drop the clip into a 25fps timeline and it will still be slow-motion.
Ohhhhh . . ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Nickless View Post
Sorry Paul, I think you've got this wrong.
Oh . . . NO!
(I wish I hadn't posted that).

Sincere apologies, Paul - I obviously have the EX1's settings wrong. Patrick's explanation was clearer than yours but I should have asked you what you meant by changing the frame rate - you meant "in camera" right?

I think I know where my mistake is with the camera and slow motion now. I'll check it out and continue my apology when I know more!
__________________
I taught you all I know and still you know nothing.
Andy Nickless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 05:02 AM   #11
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol UK
Posts: 1,271
Andy.
I've recorded enough slo-mo and fast-mo with my EX1 to know what i'm doing.
Have a look at

www.vimeo.com/paulkellett

Look at my friends mma class, there's slo-mo on there, recorded in 720/25p format, in camera slo-mo switched on, frame rate at 60fps.

If you've recorded slo-mo in cam, then view it in cam, if you've recorded correctly then it will play back slow on the camera screen, if that same footage plays back wrong on your editing suite then obviously that's set up wrong.

Paul.
__________________
Round 2
Panasonic HC-X1, Vinten PB, Sennheiser G3 bits. Vegas pro 14 on i7,AMD Radeon RX480 8GB.
Paul Kellett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 05:08 AM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol UK
Posts: 1,271
Ha ha.
No worries mate.
You'll get it sorted and then worry what all the fuss was about.
Once you set the slo-mo frame rate to 60fps or whatever else fps, it'll stay at that until you change it .

So if i know that sometime during the shoot i'll be shooting slo-mo, and i need it in a hurry, i leave the menu set at record format so that next time i go into the menu i'll be at "change recording format", i'll quickly change that to 720/25p, then i'll switch on slo-mo and that'll already be at 60fps.
Such a scenario would be when shooting a wedding and i'm in a rush to catch the confetti being thrown so i need to change slo-mo in a hurry.

Hope this helps.

Paul.
__________________
Round 2
Panasonic HC-X1, Vinten PB, Sennheiser G3 bits. Vegas pro 14 on i7,AMD Radeon RX480 8GB.
Paul Kellett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 05:10 AM   #13
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Worcester. United Kingdom
Posts: 197
Thanks to all of you for your patience.

When I had a Panasonic HVX200, I could shoot at 50 fps (with sound).
If I remember rightly, it took up twice the space on the cards but it gave me the option in post of normal playback (with sound) or slow motion (with sound - for what it's worth).

Although moving to the EX1 has been one of the best decisions I ever made, I was disappointed to discover I couldn't shoot 50 fps with sound.

I overlooked the fact that the EX1 does slow motion a different way (or at least the setup is different).

So if I want slow motion, I really have to shoot slow motion.
OK - I can live with that. It's a small inconvenience for the huge leap in quality I've taken by going EX1.
__________________
I taught you all I know and still you know nothing.
Andy Nickless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 06:55 AM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Utrecht, NL | Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun
Posts: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Nickless View Post
Although moving to the EX1 has been one of the best decisions I ever made, I was disappointed to discover I couldn't shoot 50 fps with sound
The EX1 most certainly can shoot 720p50 (or 720p60) with sound. Just not with S&Q Mode enabled.

So you have the choice of using the S&Q function for slow (or quick) motion OR you can set up and record "regular" 720p50 and conform to another timebase in post.

George/
George Kroonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 24th, 2008, 07:10 AM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 45
If You need sound during recording You can also shoot in 720p 50 or 60 fps. To get a 25p slo motion clip You only have to change the frame rate of the clip. Since I am not a Mac user, I can't can give You no specific advice, but there is one workaround which will work in any case:
Render the 60 fps as single frames and reimport these as a new 25 fps clip.

Greetings Richard
Richard Firnges is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:25 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network