PAL versus NTSC Shooting at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 4th, 2008, 03:37 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle, Australia
Posts: 337
PAL versus NTSC Shooting

I am planning an upcoming shoot with my EX1 that will be converted to SD DVD. The potential clients are both from Europe, Australia, and North America. I am thinking of producing the DVD in PAL, but I need to know if NTSC DVD players will play back PAL discs. I know that many PAL DVD players do play back NTSC - but is the opposite the case. Just hoping that some of the guys in North America might be able to give me a leg up on this.

Any help is much appreciated.
__________________
Graeme
Graeme Fullick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 04:44 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Utrecht, NL | Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun
Posts: 612
My old US Pioneer DV-606D had no problem displaying PAL (or NTSC) video on a PAL TV; this may however be a different story on an NTSC TV. But "back in the day" you needed to be careful what you bought, video wise, and I believe the 606 was a 'multisystem' player.

To be safe I'd say produce the DVD in NTSC; PAL DVD players will play it back.

George/
George Kroonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 06:12 AM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,570
I'd advise against shooting any of the 60Hz frame rates in a 50Hx country unless you take care with your lighting choices. The rolling shutter in the EX1 makes the problem much worse as well. I'd suggest shooting 25p.

This can be slowed down to 24p for NTSC distro. You can put NTSC and PAL on the one DVD using a trick a learned of recently. You use a DVD10. One side PAL and the other NTSC. No room for a label though but a simple "If one side doesn't play, turn over" instruction is all you need on the slick.
Bob Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 07:31 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Utrecht, NL | Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun
Posts: 612
AFAIK 24p is not part of the DVD standard and you cannot use it; it's either 25p (PAL) or 29.97p (NTSC).

As for lighting flicker, it shouldn't be worse for CMOS/Rolling Shutter than with CCD's as your shutter is typically not synced to the AC.

Use the Flicker reduction function from the CAMERA SET menu and set it to the appropriate frequency if you experience problems (flicker, banding). Some experimentation may be needed with the exact number (or try 'auto'). Filming under (old) fluorescent lighting may give you the most trouble as can HMI's. Tungsten and incandescent sources are usually fine.

George/
George Kroonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 08:59 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 471
It is my experience that at the level of 'consumer' the NTSC world is blissfully unaware that there is such a thing as PAL, and most NTSC gear is unable to play/read PAL material. There are odd exceptions -- some of the cheapest Chineses made DVD players are capable of playing back just about anything -- but in general the NTSC gear as found in North America is 'blind' to PAL. Twenty years ago the same was true of PAL gear when it came to NTSC, but currently almost any PAL player can play back, at some level, an NTSC recording.

As for shooting, I suggest you stick with simple, which is either 50i or 60i and have your results transcoded if you must; if you can't justify a conversion then I'd say 60i offers a closer to 'universal' result.

Cheers,
GB (stuck somewhere between UK & USA)
R Geoff Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 09:23 AM   #6
Trustee
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 1,570
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Kroonder View Post
AFAIK 24p is not part of the DVD standard and you cannot use it; it's either 25p (PAL) or 29.97p (NTSC).

As for lighting flicker, it shouldn't be worse for CMOS/Rolling Shutter than with CCD's as your shutter is typically not synced to the AC.

Use the Flicker reduction function from the CAMERA SET menu and set it to the appropriate frequency if you experience problems (flicker, banding). Some experimentation may be needed with the exact number (or try 'auto'). Filming under (old) fluorescent lighting may give you the most trouble as can HMI's. Tungsten and incandescent sources are usually fine.

George/
As far as I know 24p is part of the SD DVD spec, that's how 'movies' get authored. The player may add pulldown. The other alternative is to add pulldown and author 60i although if you keep everything 24p it's kind of a waste. 29.97p is not part of the spec, you can shoot 29.97p and convert that to 60i if you want that look. For BD things get a bit more complex. 25p isn't in the official spec but seems to work. I think from memory 30p is in the spec along with 24p.

I've had no joy getting rid of the banding issue from off frequency fluro lights. They were possibly some really wierd frequency though. I tried all the settings. The flicker filter in the Z1 though worked a treat when I've tried 60i down here and I know it works the other way around.
Bob Grant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 10:54 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Utrecht, NL | Europe 3rd Rock from the Sun
Posts: 612
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Grant View Post
As far as I know 24p is part of the SD DVD spec, that's how 'movies' get authored.
I thought so too, but then couldn't find it and believed I may have remembered wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adobe Encore manual
Video for NTSC output must have a resolution of 720 x 480, 720 x 486, or 704 x 480 with a frame rate of either 24 or 29.97 fps. Video for PAL output must have a resolution of 720 x 576 or 704 x 576 with a frame rate of 25 fps.
So found it; although initially the manual only mentions 25 and 29.97. I believe 24fps needs to be encoded with a pull down flag in the MPEG2 for this to work and not get transcoded.

Still, writing a NTSC DVD will get you the largest base for playback. Acquiring in NTSC then makes sense to me.

George/
George Kroonder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2008, 10:55 AM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Poland
Posts: 4,086
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Grant View Post
For BD things get a bit more complex. 25p isn't in the official spec but seems to work. I think from memory 30p is in the spec along with 24p.
No, 30p isn't in the BD specs just like 25p, however using 50i templates, I have no problems authoring my 25p stuff (and playing it back on many players, including stand-alones). I don't see a reason why 30p couldn't be burned as 60i, per analogy...
__________________
Sony PXW-FS7 | DaVinci Resolve Studio; Magix Vegas Pro; i7-5960X CPU; 64 GB RAM; 2x GTX 1080 8GB GPU; Decklink 4K Extreme 12G; 4x 3TB WD Black in RAID 0; 1TB M.2 NVMe cache drive
Piotr Wozniacki is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:36 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network