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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
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Old August 11th, 2008, 04:23 PM   #1
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EX3 > P2 HD | EX3 > AJA IoHD workflow

Just wanted to get people's opinion on this workflow for a feature. Does it seem legitimate to go out of the EX3 HD-SDI and create Pro-Res 10 Bit files?

Then for audio, sent TC out of EX3 to a Tascam P2 HD (TC input) for synced audio.

The issue I am foreseeing is the de-interlacing (removing the 60i from the HD-SDI stream) upon ingest. Any think this is creating too much work - is it better just to rent a HD-CAM SR and go straight to HD tape with audio in?

Let me know your thoughts.
Thanks,
-C
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Old August 12th, 2008, 08:47 AM   #2
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Christopher, What is your goal here? Is your intent to stay away from cutting Long-GOP footage? Are you looking for an archival solution for while in the field?

One thing I thought of, after you import the footage you can re-compress the footage into ProRes by using MPEGStreamclip (or other programs). In my experiences it has been slightly faster than realtime for transcoding.

If I am correct, HDCAM SR records uncompressed. So having it record to tape shouldn't reduce quality. But I think the first way is faster.

Best of luck
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Old August 12th, 2008, 10:46 AM   #3
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im not sure how hdcam sr helps the process, except by being more portable than your prores recording system. why cant you go straight to prores quicktimes with audio? doesnt the ex3 embed audio in hd-sdi? as for aja iohd being able to handle an inverse pulldown on capture, i havent done it myself but there is documentation on aja's website that describes such a workflow being used on some commercial. i would think that the IOHD is more likely to be able to remove the pulldown than an SRW-1 deck.

hdcam sr is compressed, not much, but it is, it is also expensive... it is a good option for field recording if you have the budget for it (although im fairly sure it is heavier and has a greater power requirement than the EX3 itself), but if you are onlining in prores anyway and dont need the portability or durability of a high-end tape deck in the field, i cant really see why using hdcamsr as an intermediate recording would help, and it just introduces another unnecessary step.
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Old August 12th, 2008, 01:48 PM   #4
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Not entirely sure what you are trying to achieve but you won't gain any quality by dubbing to HDCAM SR or 10 bit ProRes prior to the edit. Assuming you are editing with FCP I would simply ingest the material as Mpeg .mov's using the transfer tool and edit using the native files setting the timeline to render to ProRes. On even a modestly specced MacPro or Mac Book you should have perfectly smooth playback and editing will be a breeze.
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Old August 12th, 2008, 02:33 PM   #5
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ive been assuming that christopher was talking about capturing from hd-sdi live in the field. otherwise the question about hdcamsr wouldnt make sense. christopher, perhaps you could clarify your question?
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Old August 13th, 2008, 09:07 AM   #6
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You may consider the Wafian HR-F1 field recorder. It records HD SDI out of the EX to 10-bit Cineform (4:2:2) and can play back to the built in or externally connected monitors. These units can also be rented.

The F1 can take up to 8 embedded audio channels from the SDI. You can use the embedded audio from the cam and/or embed additional channels with something like the AJA HD10AM.

This way you have all audio and video synced, no need for jamming to timecode.

George/
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Old August 18th, 2008, 09:21 PM   #7
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Thanks George - This thing looks cool - any idea on price (can't be cheap).
Here is the broc: http://www.wafian.com/Wafian%20HR-F1%20Brochure.pdf

To clarify Noah, what is the best way to retain 10-bit color, uncompressed 23.98 footage on set for a feature film? I think George's Wafian HR-F1 seems a decent option although doesn't cineform also work in conjunction with the AJA IoHD? Wouldn't the AJA with Cineform provide the same output as the Wafian?

Thanks,
-C
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Old August 19th, 2008, 03:48 AM   #8
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Hi Christopher,

It really isn't "my" Wafian ;-) I just like my stuff well integrated.

Anyhoo, the HR-1F list price is on their website. Basically it is an optimized Windows XP based system with the necessary i/o for capture and playback. It uses the Cineform codec and has a touchscreen control system (which you can also use for instant playback).

You can build something like that yourself, like a PC with an AJA XENA and Cineform Prospect HD/2K, but the Wafian is an optimized, ready to go, purpose built system for field recording with support and all that, so weigh this against a DIY PC-based system.

The AJA Io HD is a Mac only i/o solution that captures in ProRes 422. Possibly you can use a MBP with an external eSATA RAID system and the Io HD instead of a Wafian, but it is more stuff and more cables so also more likely for something to go wrong.

Also the Io HD and the eSATA RAID will need AC power, and it's probably a good thing for the MacBook Pro as well. That means dragging around a long extension cord or a generator (likely both).

The Wafian can use 24V DC and can be powered for 4-6 hours on an Anton Bauer battery.

FFV are coming out with a harddisk based 'on camera' recorder that uses JPEG2000, but it cannot do 1080p (or 23.98). It is 100Mb/s 10-bit 4:2:2 though, but meant more for ENG type broadcast crews.

The MXO2 will be coming out soon, and is codec agnostic, but relies on the host systems (Mac Pro/MacBook Pro) processing for capture and cannot capture ProRes 422 on the current generation MBP's. As it is not out yet, exact performance/capabilities are a bit of an unknown.

The MOTU V4HD does DVCProHD (and unaccelerated ProRes on Macs) in 4:2:2 100Mb/s, but it is not a full raster HD codec. That doesn't need to be that bad a thing, esp. if you are comfortable with Panasonic P2 workflow.

The Wafian is the only tapeless system I know that does 10-bit 4:2:2 for 1080p@23.98 in the field (and it does more too).

George/
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