Tripod Fixing on EX3 - Page 3 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 30th, 2008, 09:37 PM   #31
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 131
Ah yes, and here comes the "Video and Film Equipment" mark-up. No thanks. Time for MacGyver to step in..
Jason Davenport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2008, 12:12 AM   #32
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 898
bit on the expensive side ...

Over priced for what it is!
Dean Harrington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2008, 03:21 AM   #33
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 134
spendy

I'll weigh in too - I was lined up to buy one... until I saw the price. Now I'm bound for my friend's garage and his welder.
Zachary Fink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2008, 07:02 AM   #34
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 596
I'm working with Jeff DeMaagd now (DM Accessories) and we'll try to put somthing together quickly. The differences?
- It would be based on my designs
- Includes a hinged section at the rear to both lower center of gravity and counterbalance the lens
- It would include padding for the shoulder

So, the question is, should it include the electronics (plate for Dionic 90 or IDX or SWIT) with a cable for the EX3? This will increase manufacturing costs substantially. Or, can it be left to the purchaser to add their preferred battery/mic system? Any thoughts?
__________________
Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT
Ted OMalley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2008, 07:12 AM   #35
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 898
Ted ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted OMalley View Post
I'm working with Jeff DeMaagd now (DM Accessories) and we'll try to put somthing together quickly. The differences?
- It would be based on my designs
- Includes a hinged section at the rear to both lower center of gravity and counterbalance the lens
- It would include padding for the shoulder

So, the question is, should it include the electronics (plate for Dionic 90 or IDX or SWIT) with a cable for the EX3? This will increase manufacturing costs substantially. Or, can it be left to the purchaser to add their preferred battery/mic system? Any thoughts?
Keep it simple ~ later if it really has an impact make all kinds of additions!
Dean Harrington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2008, 07:59 PM   #36
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: York, UK.
Posts: 224
Stripped down version.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted OMalley View Post
I'm working with Jeff DeMaagd now (DM Accessories) and we'll try to put somthing together quickly. The differences?
- It would be based on my designs
- Includes a hinged section at the rear to both lower center of gravity and counterbalance the lens
- It would include padding for the shoulder

So, the question is, should it include the electronics (plate for Dionic 90 or IDX or SWIT) with a cable for the EX3? This will increase manufacturing costs substantially. Or, can it be left to the purchaser to add their preferred battery/mic system? Any thoughts?
Having seen the VF price, I'd consider a stripped down version from you and Jeff. I would'nt always need the shoulder pads there or a hinged section since I already have some Zacuto gear for all that. A nice, stiff and strong (and light? Can the plates be machined/scooped out a bit?) 3-point plate is what I'm looking for.

Thanks for your enterprising spirit,

Jus.

Last edited by Justin Benn; October 1st, 2008 at 08:00 PM. Reason: fatigue-induced errors.
Justin Benn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2008, 11:41 PM   #37
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 131
Still unsure how your weight transfer will work, if you are using a Anton Bauer dionic it only weighs 1.7 pounds. And at the farther back position of the shoulder area, still seems a bit to far back. Even being in a lower position, it's still to light. Add the hand grips and there is more front weight.. Problem is still too front heavy. A full size brick that weighs close to 5 pounds would do it, though.
For me personally I (not being a matte box snob) like to have use of a matte box along with follow focus, for function and to help sell the camera to my clients who are used to having full size Cinealta's rigs and are afraid of seeing a smaller (consumer) looking cameras on the set. (Until they are sold on the beautiful images this camera can make of course).

Even with my rig, to make it center balanced I add a 3 lbs weight in rear audio bag that I made for it. And my shoulder pad area is almost under the camera. All this and its close to 18 to 20 lbs. Still 4 to 7 lbs lighter than full size, but I can rest the camera on shoulder and hold a balanced shot.
Here's my rig: http://i38.tinypic.com/24ywoaw.jpg

But the problem is I can't just click off the tripod and go hand held, I have to stop down pull camera and add shoulder pad to rails and then adjust everything.

If there was a way to simply snap in the shoulder mount below the plate (to have the shoulder pad under it, than behind) and no adjustment. would be cool. Here's a very crude drawing..http://i36.tinypic.com/30l2csh.jpg

I don't know... this a very tough nut to crack. For this camera to be universal to all, easy to put on sticks and pull off to run hand held (for some time) and add accessories and to be balanced as the larger counter parts, is a hard one..
Jason Davenport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2008, 02:52 AM   #38
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Jason: I hadn't thought about turning the Indian matte box support around like that, but it is a good idea.

I look at many of these designs and I can't help but think the shoulder supports are too close to the VF. My eyes when I stand up straight are roughly in line with the front of my chest. Many of these home-brew shoulder mounts are placing the VF over the centre of the shoulder, so in use you must be leaning backwards and with long term use it's going to give you back or neck problems.

This isn't an easy nut to crack, and I've gone through a few prototype mounts. The EX3 is very front heavy, a situation made worse by the fact that the eyepiece cup is well to the rear of the camera. I'm not sure that without creating a 4ft long camera you can get it to balance comfortably on your shoulder, especially if you start adding heavier lenses or matte boxes. Certainly you can shift the center of gravity further back by putting some kind of V-Lock or AB mount to the rear of the camera, but it's always going to be front heavy.
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2008, 09:58 AM   #39
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Davenport View Post
Still unsure how your weight transfer will work, if you are using a Anton Bauer dionic it only weighs 1.7 pounds. And at the farther back position of the shoulder area, still seems a bit to far back. Even being in a lower position, it's still to light. Add the hand grips and there is more front weight.. Problem is still too front heavy. A full size brick that weighs close to 5 pounds would do it, though.
Jason,

I've tested the arrangement in the latest design. My goal was to lighten the front of the camera as much as possible while adding as little weight as possible. That is why the battery extends so far to the rear. I actually sticks out about six or seven inches behind my back and counters the same amount of weight five or six inches in front of me. It's a considerable improvement. To completely "balance" the camera on your shoulder, it would require an additional three or four pounds (roughly) set on the back of the bracket that the A/B or IDX battery is attached to.

Also, though you could add them, I've removed the handle in this design due to wanting to reduce weight. Also, in this configuration, the cameras handgrip is quite comfortable.

This design can go from shoulder to tripod without adjustment, but the idea is that if you fold up the battery section, the weight of the camera is balanced over the tripod head. Folding down the battery secion moves the "balance" to your shoulder.

And, yes, rails can be added. The frontmost area of the bottom plate is where an extension could attach and onto which rails would mount. Below this attachment would be a new tripod mounting plate. So, now on rails, the center of gravity is raise a bit, but it makes for a quick transfer. Also, if using rails (with matte box, grips, focus, etc.) the front is much heavier. The battery folded down would be needed to balance on a tripod. Shoulder mount will just be heavy without further customization.

However, considering the replies of Justin and Dean, we'll probably start with a fairly simple yet effective design that is customizable as necessary. For those "handy" types, they could quite literally drill additional mounting holes and all whatever equipment they wanted once the main plate is in place.

Pics here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/941086-post21.html
__________________
Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT
Ted OMalley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2008, 10:06 AM   #40
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 596
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
I look at many of these designs and I can't help but think the shoulder supports are too close to the VF. My eyes when I stand up straight are roughly in line with the front of my chest. Many of these home-brew shoulder mounts are placing the VF over the centre of the shoulder, so in use you must be leaning backwards and with long term use it's going to give you back or neck problems.
Alister,

I've had the same misgivings as you, and the first time I considered this (two months ago or so) I rejected it outright because I imagined it would be terribly uncomfortable and an unnatural position. After several tests, however, I've changed my mind. Tucking the right hand closer to the chest alleviates a tremendous amount of the strain to the shoulder. Also, I have a tendance to sit and stand with my head more forward than I should - my posture is a little off. Despite this, I actually have to move the eyepiece closer to me in order to look through it. It is actually too far from my eye!

I understand that what worked for me might not work for everyone, and that it looks akward as a picture. I'm just saying that I was rather pleasantly surprised to learn that it could actually be tucked in a little tighter (if the camera allowed for it) before any discomfort or unnatural positions were introduced.
__________________
Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT
Ted OMalley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2008, 11:21 AM   #41
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
Jason: I hadn't thought about turning the Indian matte box support around like that, but it is a good idea.

I look at many of these designs and I can't help but think the shoulder supports are too close to the VF. My eyes when I stand up straight are roughly in line with the front of my chest. Many of these home-brew shoulder mounts are placing the VF over the centre of the shoulder, so in use you must be leaning backwards and with long term use it's going to give you back or neck problems.

This isn't an easy nut to crack, and I've gone through a few prototype mounts. The EX3 is very front heavy, a situation made worse by the fact that the eyepiece cup is well to the rear of the camera. I'm not sure that without creating a 4ft long camera you can get it to balance comfortably on your shoulder, especially if you start adding heavier lenses or matte boxes. Certainly you can shift the center of gravity further back by putting some kind of V-Lock or AB mount to the rear of the camera, but it's always going to be front heavy.
It's actually a CAVISION matte box system, and the shoulder mount gets set back a little further and the two part shoulder pad splits in two pieces and becomes longer for a adjustment.And the viewfinder is rotated to the furthest position towards front.
Actually have been very happy with their stuff. Just wish all of this would stay on and click on tripod.

Still can't believe they want 575 for the mount from VFgagets. Still just, pisses me off.

Go to it TED..
Jason Davenport is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2008, 11:56 AM   #42
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK
Posts: 4,957
Here's my latest V-Lock mount adapter and matte box rails. I wanted to keep the rails separate from the V mount as I won't always be using the matte box. The rails and matte box help with the tripod mounting as the camera is supported by both the tripod fixing bush and the lens as the matte box has a rigid lens clamp ring. This stops any tendency for the camera to rock. The rails were purchased from ebay for 75 and I've added an extension and Sony type wedge so that I can use it on a standard Sony snatch plate. The V-Lock adapter/shoulder support can be quickly removed without tools. I've used a wedge adapter available from my local photographic suppliers. I need to get some foam to complete the shoulder pad. This is still work in progress, but I am reasonably happy with this current version.
Attached Thumbnails
Tripod Fixing on EX3-photo-1.jpg   Tripod Fixing on EX3-photo-3.jpg  

Tripod Fixing on EX3-photo-2.jpg  
__________________
Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com
Alister Chapman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2008, 02:39 PM   #43
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 596
Alister-

Looks pretty nice, keep up the good work!
__________________
Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT
Ted OMalley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2008, 08:08 PM   #44
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted OMalley View Post
This design can go from shoulder to tripod without adjustment, but the idea is that if you fold up the battery section, the weight of the camera is balanced over the tripod head. Folding down the battery secion moves the "balance" to your shoulder.


However, considering the replies of Justin and Dean, we'll probably start with a fairly simple yet effective design that is customizable as necessary. For those "handy" types, they could quite literally drill additional mounting holes and all whatever equipment they wanted once the main plate is in place.
I've been following this thread from the start. I'm on a documentary production in Hawaii having shot here for two months with EX1s, and now using an EX3. I like the camera, but would really LOVE it if I could get some more balance on the shoulder - especially with my Cavision mattebox mounted up (no rails).

I was all set to order a shoulder/tripod mount from VFGadgets, but no way at that price. I don't use aftermarket batteries, but like the idea of having weight further back like on that hinged setup you spec'd Ted. Perhaps a wireless mic could velcro there. Padding for my shoulder is a priority, as most of the work I do I shoot on the fly. Unlike my last shoulder mount, I love Ted's idea that no adjustments need be made to get it on the tripod - and that it reinforces the crummy tripod mounting plate on the EX3. Price is obviously a priority too!

All in all, it sounds like you've got a good thing going Ted. I'd be VERY interested in one of your mounts when you have it done. I'm shooting here until the end of Oct, and would love to field test it!

Cheers
Zachary Fink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2008, 08:31 PM   #45
Major Player
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 596
Zachary,

Thanks for the support. Our goal is to provide twice the mount at half the price. This should make it a fairly popular item and provided we make a little, the volume will make it worthwhile. Drawings and designs are nearly complete, and we've sourced some prototype elements as well as some production ones.

Hopefully, within two weeks, the prototype will begin to be built. Very shortly after, we'll start a small run - a couple dozen units - and see how they're received.

Please stay tuned...
__________________
Sony EX3, Vegas 9.0 64bit, Windows 7(64), Core i7, 12GB, RAID1 & 0, HotSwap SATA, 30" LCD(2560x1600)-GTX285 & 24" LCD(1360x768)-7800GT
Ted OMalley is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:42 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network