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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old September 27th, 2008, 09:39 AM   #316
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This is great to read about. I really don't expect to do much with over/undercrank, so I am simply concerned with the reliability of the SDHC cards in the EX1/3 in HQ mode. If this is really solid, then I'm going for it, but I'm going to follow these threads very closely. We all need something that WON'T fail. Exciting stuff - being able to do 64 GB for under $400 is amazing!

Please keep testing/posting this stuff. It is VERY helpful.
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Old September 27th, 2008, 10:28 AM   #317
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Yes, I agree that when you need slo-mo, just throw in your SxS card.

We are solely using the overcrank to evaluate the combination expresscard adapter and SDHC data rate when used in the EX1 or EX3.

I've been testing everyday since 9/17 and have yet to have one error using the Kensington 7-in-1 with the new SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s version SDHC and also the SanDisk Ultra II 15M/s SDHC.


At this time, althought the new SanDisk Extreme III 30MB/s SDHC is technically capable of sustaining faster data rates (30MB/s over the Ultra II's 15MB/s), the combo adaptor and SDHC card is only allowing up to 8.3MB/s (When used in the EX). Therefore, the Ultra II works equal to the new Extreme SDHC with this combo. Also the Ultra II is half the cost of the Extreme III.


I'd be REAL interested in someone who has an expresscard slot on their PC to download the Crystal Disk Mark data rate speed tester and check the speed of the Kensington 7-in-1 adaptor with the SanDisk Ultra II, Extreme III, Trascend SDHC cards.

Crystal Dew World - Software - CrystalDiskMark

If the write speed is greater than 8.3MB/s, than we will know the data rate is limited by Sony.

In order for S&Q mode to work its highest overcrank data rate, we would have to be able to sustain 12.5MB/s.

I would not be surprised if Sony crippled the data rate for USB 2.0. I sure hope this is not the case.

If Sony is worried about their SxS cards, they need not be worried. They still will sell them to those who will use nothing else due to they offer fast data transfers to your PC.

Also, Sony should also realize that this combo expresscard / SDHC is a real selling point for their cameras! They should offer an expresscard adaptor that allows the EX1 memory door to close with the SDHC cards inserted.

This would be one great push for their marketing.
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Old September 27th, 2008, 10:43 AM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hollister View Post
Panasonic and Kensington no work... too many errors
Moving to the audience on this one, good luck all

???
I'm not sure if I understand your post?

The Panasonic SDHC cards were never tested to work?

Run the overcrank test that's been outlined in these threads to determine what kind of headroom there is for the SDHC you are testing.

Based on you are having errors, it's apparent that the Panasonic SDHC card you tested is not capable of sustaining even 5MB/s.

HQ mode max data rate is around 40mbps which equates to 5MB/s (40mbps/8 = 5MB/s)

The new SanDisk 16GB Extreme III 30MB/s version SDHC and SanDisk Ultra II 15MB/s are working are capable of writing at 8.3MB/s in the EX with the Kensington 7-in-1. This is decent headromm since HQ mode tops out at writing at 5MB/s

Therefore, unless we're just testing for inexpensive SDHC cards, at this time I do not recommend any other SDHC cards.

Right now, the smartest SDHC card to buy is the 16GB SanDisk Ultra II 15MB/s. Man, these are only $60 !! A great buy.
I've used this with the Kensington everyday testing the heck out of it even spanning across cards and have never had one error.
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Old September 27th, 2008, 10:48 AM   #319
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Also, Sony should also realize that this combo expresscard / SDHC is a real selling point for their cameras! They should offer an expresscard adaptor that allows the EX1 memory door to close with the SDHC cards inserted.

This would be one great push for their marketing.

This would be the smartest thing to do for Sony. They would sell loads of cameras. We customers would be more happy, Sony sells more, profits go up, shareholders are even more happy, EX developers get a raise in salary, they design better products, we customers are happier than ever, Sony sells more and more,...................
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Old September 27th, 2008, 11:44 AM   #320
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Just came across this thread. This discussion may allow me to get the EX1 I want. Is it clear which firmware versions this will work with and which it will not? Do we know which version EX1s purchased now will have?
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Old September 27th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #321
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It will only work with firmware 1.11 for the EX1. It has only been around for a month or so. I would check firmware on the cam you're buying to make sure it does not have older firmware.
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Old September 27th, 2008, 12:43 PM   #322
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I am still trying to make up my mind on what cards to buy.
These are my candidates:

16 GB Transcend SDHC
16 GB Sandisk Ultra II SDHC
16 GB Sandisk Extreme III SDHC

They are all extremely cheap compared to SxS-memory and I can definately afford all of them. However - if there is no practical difference in performance in the EX1 from these three cards I don't want to spend more than twice as much on Extreme III-cards without reason. I'd rather gett twice as many. :-)

The fact that Steven is recommending the Ultra II card is reassuring but I don't want to be cheap IF it might lead to a media failure in the future that I could have avoided by buying the Extreme III card.

So - I guess my question is, Steven (and others): which are the overcrank record fps on these cards? I cannot recall a comparison between the 16 GB ultra II and the 16 GB extreme III in this thread. I am trying to figure out if the speed difference between the ultras and extremes is having any effect at all in the camera.
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Old September 27th, 2008, 01:06 PM   #323
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Transcend 16gb does not seem to work reliably.

I have had success with SanDisk Extreme III 16gb in all modes, including overcranking up to 24/40fps.

I have not tested 16gb Ultra II but reports here are positive.

I await 32gb Ultra II. No idea when it will be released and SanDisk has not yet replied to my query as a journalist.
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Old September 27th, 2008, 04:26 PM   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Thomas View Post
Yes Andrew, I gave up with the AFT adapter.
You should try the Kensington with your Panasonic SDHC.
...
If/when you get the Kensington memory, let us know if it works with the Panny memory.
Yes, I was referring to the same Panasonic SDHC 8GB card I was talking about in the other thread regarding this. (you guys are spanning a lot of threads on this subject)

I thought this Panasonic might work being labeled compatible with AVCHD cameras. But that codec is only around 3mb/s (if i read wikipedia correctly) While the card claims 20mb/s...

With this combo, I did have one somewhat scary moment. When I tried formatting the Panasonic in the Kensington, it would consistently hang at 79%. So I switched and formatted in the AFT adaptor. It worked, but when I went back to using the Kensington.. all I got was a black lcd with "STBY" -- nothing but pulling the power would remove this error. Once it was 'working' (Pana & Kensington) errors in 720P HQ mode as well as any flavor of S&Q.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Thomas View Post
... unless we're just testing for inexpensive SDHC cards, at this time I do not recommend any other SDHC cards.
This wasn't at all an inexpensive SDHC card. Not at $72 for 8gb.

To answer other questions I've received, I'm not entirely convinced that this is a safe route. Fun for play, but I wouldn't do it on a paying gig. I've had a few issues with SD cards in the past, and they just doesn't give me a totally warm and fuzzy feeling. Maybe after you fellas have a few error free months, I'll get back in; but for now I'm an interested spectator.

On a side note, I even tried another route... a PCexpress to USB adapter and a FireWire 800 adapter. Thinking was, attach a portable hard drive, with power, and have a 500Gb solution. The el cheapo USB adapter just didn't work, while the Belkin FW800 gave me an improper media error. I would think, there is an option that would make this work as well. Maybe attaching a larger drive to the PHU-60k connect cable, if they are available as a replacement part?
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Old September 27th, 2008, 06:02 PM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ned Soltz View Post
Transcend 16gb does not seem to work reliably.
Ned, what did you find unreliable about the Transcend 16GB? I really haven't had a problem other than one strange error when I switched from slomo to normal speed and I'm not sure if that was related to the card or not. It was easily recoverable and none of the recordings on the Transcend card was affected.

I've once had a 'media' problems with a SxS card when offloading to a Mac then popping it back into the Sony. Reformatting it seemed to correct it.

On the Transcend 16GB, other than it can't go as slomo as the Extreme, seems ok so far...

I think if you have mission critical shoots, and if you're a professional that can't afford to have anything go wrong ever, and you can afford it however many SxS cards you need for a shoot, the SxS is obviously the way to go.

However, it's fun to explore alternatives, and it's interesting to hear prospective buyers deciding on purchasing a EX1 or EX3 because of the possibility of cheaper 'off the shelf' media alternatives. I bet Sony sells a lot more EX1s and EX3s, if only because of that alternative. We are quickly entering an age where tape is obsolete. In five years SDHC or something like it may be so cheap that replaces tape or optical as an archival media.
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Old September 27th, 2008, 10:14 PM   #326
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I recall reading either here or on another board that the Transcend 16gb was not performing reliably in HQ mode. Now, it is entirely possible that I misread the post since so much information has been flying around that I'm about on overload.
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Old September 27th, 2008, 11:47 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Hollister View Post
I'm not entirely convinced that this is a safe route. Fun for play, but I wouldn't do it on a paying gig. I've had a few issues with SD cards in the past, and they just doesn't give me a totally warm and fuzzy feeling. Maybe after you fellas have a few error free months, I'll get back in; but for now I'm an interested spectator.

Then you may want to stick with the SxS cards.
You have to use the cards suggested unless you're up for checking data rates with the software I reccomended along with the overcrank test.

As far as SDHC cards, I've been using these for years thowing them in and out of cameras and have never had one issue. In fact, the new Nikon D90 uses the new Extreme III 30MB/s SDHC which Nikon worked with SanDisk on this SDHC card to make sure it would offer the high data rate needed for the D90.

Again, when used with the Kensington 7-in-1, the two recommended cards - the 4GB Ultra II 15MB/s and new 16GB Extreme III 30MB/s version offers 8.3MB/s sustained data rate which is a decent amount over the EX HQ MAX data rate of 5MB/s. The normal HQ data rate of the EX is 35mbps or 4.375MB/s.

Myself and others who are using the listed SDHC cards and Kensington have not had any errors.
In the last 11 days of testing, I've logged almost more time testing this combo than I've had since I bought the camera! LOL

I've been running this thing crazy even spanning with two Kensington Adaptors.

Last edited by Steven Thomas; September 28th, 2008 at 09:27 PM. Reason: corrected typo
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Old September 28th, 2008, 05:36 AM   #328
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I've been happy using two AFT adapters without errors for a while now, with the door closed - which is cool. I'm using Transcend 8gb cards and a Patriot 16gb - both fail at relatively low S&Q around 36 - but then I'm not fussed as these cards are cheap, and both class 6. The Patriot shows seq: 18.57 and 11.53 512: 18.48 and 2.85 4K: 4.28 and 0.024. with crystaldiskmark.

I've run full cards, hard starts and stops, slot switching - no errors.

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Last edited by Paul Newman; September 28th, 2008 at 06:29 AM.
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Old September 28th, 2008, 06:27 AM   #329
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so, the Ultra IIs work as well as the new Ultra IIIs? I want to pick up a couple of these
for this weekends gig. i would love to have to not dump cards during the day.
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Old September 28th, 2008, 09:26 AM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Newman View Post
AFT adapters
What are these? Please post a link, thanks...
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