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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old October 11th, 2008, 05:03 PM   #556
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Well for what it's worth, I became a new owner of an EX3 this week. It did indeed come down to the $2000.00 CAN difference between two 16GB SxS and two 16GB SDHC. I also managed to snap up the EX3 before this weeks $900 Canadian price increase and the huge drop in the Canadian dollar. Otherwise in this economy, it just would not have been possible on my fringe income.

So far I am very pleased with the EX3, it works as advertised. I will receive two 16GB SDHC cards and reader this week. Thanks to Steven Thomas and all who discovered this awesome break through. I am compensating for the IR shortcoming with a Schneider 486 filter and I am waiting for Ted to manufacture a safer Tripod plate.
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Old October 11th, 2008, 07:26 PM   #557
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Thanks Barry, but the real thanks goes to Alister Chapman.
He's the first to report about the Kensington and Transcend SDHC.

Myself and a few others were the ones who made many trips in and out of Fry's Electronics trying to find the best working combo for the EX1. I started to get looks in the return line. lol ;)
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Old October 11th, 2008, 08:30 PM   #558
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Do you guys have a printer at home?

I find the enthusiasm which suggests Sony's increasing sales due to the discovery of the quasi-compatibility of SD cards a little amusing.
I see this matter as the inkjet printer vs ink cartridge relationship in terms of profit source for the maker.
Using the same analogy, do you guys think Canon would love to hear you saying "Hey, we have found a syringe and ink, pumped the ink into the cartridge. Although its not as good as the original - but it works and dirt cheap. Canon, we just created huge revenues for ya on the printer sales! Nice, eh?.... Heck, why these printers are so cheap...?"

What do you think gives Sony more profits, a 6000-7000$ complicated electromechanical device with all the warranty and support or a close-to-thousand bucks card that pops out from a robot's "mouth" by the second?

I don't want to be pretentious, I have ordered my Kensingtons and Ultras. I just think its better to keep our mouth shut - Sony may twist the design or update the firmware to avoid our practices. Then maybe our poor fellow EX3 users of 2009 wont be able to enjoy the SD fiesta :o)
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Old October 11th, 2008, 08:57 PM   #559
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Zsolt,
I'd be surprised if Sony did not already know about this.

Juan Martinez who is a Senior Manager for Sony Electronics has helped clear up several issues with the EX series mentioned on this forum.

I hear your reasoning, but I certainly believe this is ONE HECK of a selling point on these cameras. This is a great marketing tool and would shine in advertisements.
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Old October 11th, 2008, 10:06 PM   #560
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"The Crystal Ball"

"The Crystal Ball"
Sony sees the writing on the wall and thinks about monetization.

The call to Kensington
"We'll give you certification of compatibility and we get $5 or 20% on each unit sold, whichever is higher. Think about the marketing benefit to you."

The call to Sandisk
"We'll give you certification of compatibility and we get $25 or 20% on each unit sold, whichever is higher. We know you make SxS cards too but you'll see the cost benefit on increased volume."

The call to Lexar
"By joining our certification program we'll share the technology needed to ensure your cards meet the certification standard."

. . . .
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Old October 11th, 2008, 10:54 PM   #561
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They know... I contacted Sony about two weeks ago at the time the Rep said she did not know any other card would work with the EX1 or Ex3. I emailed them the link to this topic.
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Old October 11th, 2008, 11:11 PM   #562
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Drop the EX 1 price

How about Sony dropping the price of the EX1 from US$6,499.oo to US$5,499.00 minus the two 8gb SxS cards, one with the camera one with the rebate;(B&H prices), and let the customers decide how much they want to invest in cards, be it K&S combos for SQ and HQ, or SxS for SQ, HQ, and Overcranking for slo mo. I will bet they would sell tons of cameras and still many customers would purchase at least one SxS card for overcranking and slo mo. But nothing will drive sales up more in this days and ages, than a steep price reduction. This would kill Panny potential customers, scare the hell out of JVC's; and they could probaly just corner the market with huge success. That is assuming we don't have any more QC issues, ineficient firmware updates, and the like. So any way, no body at Sony ever listens, so I better go to bed now, and start REALLY dreaming away...........have a good night chapesees and chaps!
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Old October 12th, 2008, 02:04 AM   #563
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I predict they (sony) try and stop it in the future.. unless they expect companies to keep pace and make future adapters even more compatible.

We are talking about a company that made sure their NLE could only edit AVCHD from their own line of cameras.. They would surely sell more Sony Vegas software if it worked with all AVCHD cameras, but they don't see it that way.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 03:55 AM   #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zsolt Gordos View Post
I see this matter as the inkjet printer vs ink cartridge relationship in terms of profit source for the maker.
An interesting analogy, but you can look at it two ways.

I suspect most users buy their EX, maybe two or three cards, and that's it. A bit like buying the printer and a lifetimes supply of ink at the start.

Whereas SDHC cards are already cheap enough for people to start considering them as the new tape. Shoot, then hand to client, or put on the shelf as their own library. Result: ongoing sales, a far better equivalent to the ink cartridges.

But there is a fiddleiness to using SD cards and adaptors, and in many ways they seem just too small, too easily lost. To me the really smart thing for Sony to do would be what I previously called an "SxS lite", cheaper lower spec ExpressCards, but guaranteed to work with the EX in a basic fashion.

That would enhance EX sales, whilst giving them the benefit of "ink cartridge" repeat business, in a way that standard SxS cards don't.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 04:06 AM   #565
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Im with David. While I like being able to use cheaper SD cards, they are just too small. I too would love to see Sony bring out a certified express card option.

As for Sony removing this ability, I'm not sure they can now as to do so would probably take away the ability to use the PHU-60. If Sony really needed to protect the SxS card revenue stream then they would not have released the PHU-60. Ultimately more EX camera sales will lead to more SxS card sales. Many users will still want SxS cards for mission critical applications. I believe we will see most users having 3 or 4 SxS cards plus a bunch of SD cards until such time as SxS prices drop significantly. The SDHC option may just help bring down the cost of SxS. I would much rather use SxS than SDHC but at the moment it doesn't make economic sense.

Another thing Sony must also be well aware of is that the ability to use cheap media is a very strong selling point for EX over P2. This would help Sony put the squeeze on Panasonic and increase market share. Who knows what deal Sony did with Sandisc when they developed SxS. If I was Sandisc I wouldn't be too happy that the cameras developed to use SxS can now be used with generic SD media. I'm sure there is some serious head scratching going on behind closed doors at Sony.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 07:05 AM   #566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
If I was Sandisc I wouldn't be too happy that the cameras developed to use SxS can now be used with generic SD media. I'm sure there is some serious head scratching going on behind closed doors at Sony.
Why wouldn't Sandisk be happy? They are making the "user approved" SD-cards that we now use and love.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 09:49 AM   #567
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From a design engineer's point of view, when Sony offered USB support via the EX expresscard slot, I'm sure the engineers knew there were expresscard media adaptors on the market.
They've been available for a couple years. Also, Sony is using the USB protocol for expresscard data transfer.

This may be one of the reasons they limited their USB datarate.

The EX at its highest datarate is only 100mbps (12.5MB/s). This is the dataerate for overcranking 24P and 60FPS.
Portable USB drives can sustain over 30MB/s over USB 2.0.

Again, Sony either intentionally crippled their USB datarate, or somehow screwed up. I'll bet it was intentional.

Well, SDHC cards are now being using in new and upcoming video cameras.
I'll say it again, this is GOOD NEWS for Sony.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 06:04 PM   #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Raskin View Post
Remember you guys suggested keeping the card in the adapter, and just pulling/inserting the whole thing, just like SxS card?
Now you can :) Just got a Buy.com promo, Cables Unlimited IOC-9750 adapter is under $8 (after rebate) with free shipping.

So I guess now you can get a couple of them with equal number of Sandisk Ultra II 15Mb/s cards, and each set gets you about 1hr of HQ 1080p recording time in EX1. For $68 instead of $800. (It won't do overkranking over 40fps, of course, but everything else is the same as SxS card.)

I own it, and in all my tests, this IOC-9750 adapter never produced any errors, so seems like it's as good as Kensington (which is $36.)

Enjoy :)


I ordered 2 of these readers My EX1 had a hard time seeing the media. Tested with Transend 8 GB cards.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 06:20 PM   #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Rhodes View Post
I ordered 2 of these readers My EX1 had a hard time seeing the media. Tested with Transend 8 GB cards.



Brian, maybe the Cable Unlimited adaptor does not work with Transcend?

Have you tried the Cable Unlimited adaptor with the Ultra II 15MB/s or the Extreme III 30MB/s SDHC cards?

I'm sticking with the Kensington. I have four of these with the SanDisk Ultra II 15MB/s and new Extreme III 30MB/s SDHC cards.
I've been using them for almost a month with NO errors in HQ modes.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 06:57 PM   #570
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Brian - what do you mean by "hard time"?

Please elaborate, thanks!
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