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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old November 21st, 2008, 09:57 PM   #1006
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Originally Posted by David Heath View Post
The message is do Sony make to want one lot of profit of (say) $100 on two cards at the initial camera sale, or make $5 here, $5 next week etc as users keep on buying cheaper cards?
Your arguments are admirable, and I agree. However, Sony has clearly taken steps to package ordinary flash media into a proprietary container so that they can sell an extra $2k/camera at an incredible profit margin. Panasonic preceded Sony, but they asked for even more. Sony got the message. Selling proprietary media works. This is even better than tape as Sony customers only have to choose from Sony and Sandisk for SxS.

If either company decided to open up their currently closed media audience, they would probably charge an additional $2k/camera. The funny thing is that EX1 users are probably happy to pay more for the camera than pay top dollar for flash media that is sold for less elsewhere. We're used to paying a premium for tape - witness the $10-15 tapes for Sony's HDV recorders and way more for their XDCAM optical media. I suppose we object to paying $2K for two hours of recording media that is archived to hard disk.

I don't see archiving on flash media in the near future as hard disks are the way to go. I just bought a 1 TB Samsung HD for $100. We want will ask for 100-400 MBps, 4:2:2 video, then 1080p60 and 1080p300. Then 4K resolution. Will it end? No.
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Old November 21st, 2008, 10:45 PM   #1007
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SIIG tech support responded that the newer "12 in 1" card supports SDHC.

Meanwhile, good to know that onsale.com still has some Kensington 7 in 1-- and for $29 at that.
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Old November 21st, 2008, 10:57 PM   #1008
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No they don't. The legend sign says they cannot confirm stock, and buyers should call in to try and place orders for this item.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 05:35 AM   #1009
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However, Sony has clearly taken steps to package ordinary flash media into a proprietary container so that they can sell an extra $2k/camera at an incredible profit margin. Panasonic preceded Sony, but they asked for even more.
I don't think it's accurate to describe SxS or P2 as "ordinary flash media" - their performance is far greater (800Mbs for SxS) than such as the UltraII or ExtremeIII ranges, and this performance you have to pay for, just as the ExtremeIV CF range costs much more than ExtremeIII.

But what this thread proves beyond doubt is that the SxS or P2 levels of performance just aren't necessary nowadays for ordinary high quality recording. The faster ranges have their place - overcranking, or when high speed downloading are essential - but for most people, for most normal use - their performance (and cost) are unnecessary. Ferraris have their place, but for day to day motoring that level of performance isn't necessary, and for most people the choice is a more down to earth car or take the bus. Same with SxS/P2 v SDHC cards here.

And surely Sony could still have the proprietary nature, even if it sold lower performance (and cheaper) cards? Equivalent to the way we have UltraII and ExtremeIV ranges with CF cards?

Shoot, download to hard drive, reuse card immediately may be fine for some, but for a lot of people an ability to shoot, hand media straight to client, is highly desirable. Equally, even if the media isn't kept on the card indefinately, there may be a lot to be gained from being able to keep it there for a few weeks in some circumstances.

It's horses for courses, but I believe hard drives don't like to be left unused for long periods, much less of an issue with solid state. Using solid state as archival material was out of the viable question with P2 or SxS, with UltraII SDHC it's feasible, and I don't believe there is any technical reason why an "UltraII SxS" is not possible. That should be the message to Sony, both for the sake of users, and also themselves. (An "UltraII P2" I don't believe is technically feasible.)
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 07:34 AM   #1010
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That would also depend on whether you want to use all the features on the camera. Using SD or SDHC cards limits you to USB transfer speeds, whereas the sxs offers the full data speed of 800mbs. You will need this to crank the speed.

Having fought Sony's corner, I do agree that the sxs memory cards are well overpriced at the moment, but should drop next year, or in the near future.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 09:51 AM   #1011
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apacer

Tryed out apacer sdhc 16 GB.got one restore media message.I think apacer have too 6mbs data rate as transcend?What You guys think ..is it safer to use sandisk ultra 2 because its much faster?(15mbs) As i understand Transcend works too very well and it's too 6mbs.

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Old November 22nd, 2008, 10:07 AM   #1012
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In fact, transfer speeds are greater than USB if you connect your SDHC combo to your laptop express slot: 16gb SxS takes 7 - 8 mins, SDHC 11 - 12 mins, SDHC through USB 16 - 20 mins.

SDHC is great, just keep the media plugged into the card and treat it as "one" like an SxS.

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Old November 22nd, 2008, 11:18 AM   #1013
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Having fought Sony's corner, I do agree that the sxs memory cards are well overpriced at the moment, but should drop next year, or in the near future.
It's anybody's guess, but I don't think they will ever drop by a large amount because my sense is that Express34 memory cards are not ever going to become mainstream. They've been around for 2 years or so, and if anything, except for Sony's SXS brand, they seem to have flatlined.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 11:27 AM   #1014
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and if anything, except for Sony's SXS brand, they seem to have flatlined.
Are we looking at the next Betamax then? That format was also technically better than VHS, but alas no one else adopted it for mainstream viewing.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 11:34 AM   #1015
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I just don't see what would make it catch on with the mainstream. It's large, expensive and they get adequate cost/perfomance with SDHC in their point and shoot cameras, ipods, cell phones, they seem happy with USB flash drives which are all over the place.

Expresscard has it's place, as a bus interface for networking hubs, but I don't see it catching on for memory cards. Hope I'm wrong. Just my $0.02
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 03:23 PM   #1016
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The greatest advantage to me is in a pinch I can go to any number of stores and pick up a card if need be. I can edit from the SDHC cards and I can buy 15 hrs of the highest quality recording for the price of 1-16GB SxS card, transfer time is not an issue when you do that.

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Old November 22nd, 2008, 05:38 PM   #1017
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OK I just ordered 2 of the adapters that Evan mentioned earlier. They are cheap and the Kensington adapters seem to be in really short supply. My question is what seems to be the best cards. Are the Transend cards better/faster than the Sandisk UltraIIs. I am shooting some long interviews in about 3 weeks so I need to figure this out pretty quick.

Any other cards that anyone has a positive experience with?

Thanks
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 06:40 PM   #1018
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Hi Robert, I use the Sandisk 16Gb M11's and they work fine. (58 mins each and around 50 FPS overcrank but I use my sxs for that)

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Old November 22nd, 2008, 07:08 PM   #1019
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Originally Posted by Ned Soltz View Post
SIIG tech support responded that the newer "12 in 1" card supports SDHC.

Meanwhile, good to know that onsale.com still has some Kensington 7 in 1-- and for $29 at that.
I just bought the "SIIG ExpressCard 12-in-1 R/W" card and I get an "Unknown Media - Please Change" error when the ExpressCard is inserted into the PMW-EX1. I get the error whether an SDHC card is inserted into the SIIG ExpressCard, or whether the ExpressCard is inserted without media. So, looks like the SIIG card doesn't work
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 07:19 PM   #1020
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Do not forget that if you are shooting SP or HQ without over cranking the Lexar 8 Gb cards are good and you do not need an adapter and you can close the door on the EX1.
I know some people had some issues with the earlier Lexar version. Maybe it is time to try them out one more time since the Kensignton adapters are not available?
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