SDHC substitute for SxS cards

Alex Raskin · October 15th, 2008, 09:21 AM

John: in my experience, when camera recognizes IOC combo, it works just fine.

It is however unpleasant to see the camera Not recognizing the combo sometimes. It will take a couple cycles of taking adapter out of cam and re-inserting it, or powering cam down then up again; for the combo to be recognized.

I would never recommend this kind of play during the live shoot; instead, allocate 2 minutes for this before the shoot.

It's more like, set it and forget it kind of thing - if you have a long shoot like an interview or a concert, just have the cam recognize the combo, and roll. I've never seen the combo fail *after* it was recognized by the cam. (Unless you power the cam down - then you'll have to repeat the procedure, or not - it's a crap shoot.)

After an hour (for 16Gb card capacity), provide a minute or two of downtime for changing the combos, in case the cam requires re-inserting them to be recognized.

Again: this does NOT look like an acceptable procedure to me if you were planning on changing the IOCxS combos live while camera was still recording.

Kensington adapter (that I do not own yet) apparently does not give this grief, albeit at 3x the IOC Buy'com's price (if you never even count the IOC rebate.)

Alex Raskin · October 15th, 2008, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon Braeley

I am looking for a portable storage solution, ... I will have my Macbook Pro with me,

I can recommend Shotput software with 1 external USB hard drive - tiny one like WD Passport of capacity that you need.

Then just use Shotput to offload the footage to both your Mac's HDD and USB drive simultaneously.

Shotput also verifies the data, and you'll have your footage in 2 separate locations, which is virtually loss-proof.

I use this setup on location with PC-based Shotput, and am happy with the results. It takes just a bit longer to offload to 2 locations simultaneously, vs one location.

John Woo · October 15th, 2008, 10:50 AM

just got my Kensington 7-in-1 media reader and Sandisk Ultra 2 16GB SDHC card, pop it into EX1, nothing happened, EX1 not seeing the card reader. Took it out and pop it into my Sony Vaio, detected it as G drive, although my SDHC card is inserted it still asked me to 'insert a disk into removable drive'. Tried to do a format from my Vaio, it say 'no disk in drive G'

tried with my other Transcend 4GB SDHC class 6 card, same observation.

Damm , waited so long for my setup and this is the outcome. Do you think I got a faulty Kensington card?

Paul Kellett · October 15th, 2008, 11:04 AM

Silly question but do you have the latest firmware ? V1.11.
I'm using transcend and kensington, not a single problem yet.

Paul.

John Woo · October 15th, 2008, 11:08 AM

Yes, mine were upgraded to 1.11_0531

I have been following this thread from day 1 that's why I went ahead to buy the Keningston card reader.

Steven Thomas · October 15th, 2008, 11:12 AM

Hmm... Maybe defective Kensington?
I own four that work fine.

Alex Raskin · October 15th, 2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

I'm using transcend and kensington, not a single problem yet.

Paul... is this the transcend card you use?

If yes, I'll order and test it with my IOC adapters for now...

Also, how long does it take you to offload the full card to your computer?

Thanks

John Woo · October 15th, 2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thomas

Hmm... Maybe defective Kensington?
I own four that work fine.

some guys have all the luck. not me :-(

I am sending back the card.

Paul Kellett · October 15th, 2008, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Raskin

Paul... is this the transcend card you use?

If yes, I'll order and test it with my IOC adapters for now...

Also, how long does it take you to offload the full card to your computer?

Thanks

Yes that's the card i use.
With the usb reader it offloads about 4x speed, about the same as the sony sxs reader.

I buy my cards from an ebay shop which just happens to be about 1 mile from my house, so i don't actually buy them from ebay but i just wander in the shop and buy them.

The shop is called "shop4usb". I wouldn't usually advise anyone to buy memory cards from ebay but i can vouch for this shop/these cards, and the guys who run it, all genuine.
I pay £25 for the 16gb transcend or £30 with the included reader.

Paul.

Ted OMalley · October 15th, 2008, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted OMalley

Paul and Stephen,

I'm using the SDHC solution in my EX3. My card is the Extreme III 16GB. I'm shooting 720 30p.

I played for about four hours yesterday with this solution and overcrank. I was NEVER able to get it to fail overcranked to 52 or less. At 54, it would error within 15 minutes. At 60, it would error within five or ten minutes.

I tried numerous short clips, long clips, etc. I was able to record overcranked to 52 without any issues, filling up my SD card twice (58 minutes each time!)

It seems I'm getting slightly better results than I've read. Is it the EX3? The SD Extreme III? My particular Kensington reader? I was going to purchase some Ultra II's, but I'm thinking about sticking with my current setup.

Do you have any ideas on how I can test this more rigorously?

Thanks,

I don't mean to sound impatient, but I think this may have gotten buried. Does anyone know why I'd be getting better results or how I can test more thoroughly?

Thanks,

Steven Thomas · October 15th, 2008, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ted OMalley

I don't mean to sound impatient, but I think this may have gotten buried. Does anyone know why I'd be getting better results or how I can test more thoroughly?

Thanks,

My Kensington/ Extreme III 30MB/s SDHC will only over overcrank 24P at 45FPS. At 50FPS it fails.
If you're getting a bit more, I'm not sure why. But either way, with the ability to overcrank to 40FPS without an error, this info gives us a peace of mind that we can run HQ modes without an issue.

Alex Raskin · October 15th, 2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Kellett

Yes that's the card i use

Sorry if you answered this before... what maximum fps rate can you overcrank your transcend 16gb card to in EX1 without errors?

(I'm getting very stable 40fps with my IOC/Sandisk Extreme III combo...)

Steven Thomas · October 15th, 2008, 03:22 PM

At least at this point, I have a feeling we will not be able to get the full 60FPS overcrank regardless on what SDHC / expresscard combo.

Alister, has an expresscard reader in his PC that is capable of USB protocol.
He tested the Kensington/SDHC card (I can't remember which SDHC card), he was at over 15MB/s datarate. The same datarate seen using the SDHC card reader in his PC.

Overcranking 60FPS at 24P is approx. 12.5MB/s, so the bottleneck appears to be the EX.
Sony might of crippled the USB data transfer, or something or another.

Again, this may explain why their own PHU-60K (USB drive) barely runs HQ modes and will not work for overcrank.

Alex Raskin · October 15th, 2008, 03:32 PM

Yes, I just want to see what headroom do we have with Transcend cards, which I personally have not tested yet.

Keith Moreau · October 15th, 2008, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Raskin

Yes, I just want to see what headroom do we have with Transcend cards, which I personally have not tested yet.

Alex, I have both the Transcend 16GB and the Sandisk Ultra II 15MB/sec 16GB cards.

Here's my results:

Transcend: Reliable up to 38FPS at 720P
Sandisk Ultra II: Reliable up to 40FPS at 720P

I have a Mac program called XBench that benchmarks drives:

Transcend:

Disk Test 1.51
Sequential 17.28
Uncached Write 14.67 9.01 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 14.87 8.42 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 14.88 4.35 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 34.63 17.41 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 0.79
Uncached Write 0.21 0.02 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 3.73 1.20 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 500.69 3.55 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 92.84 17.23 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Sandisk Ultra:

Disk Test 1.81
Sequential 17.79
Uncached Write 15.44 9.48 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 22.12 12.52 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 11.73 3.43 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 33.67 16.92 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 0.95
Uncached Write 0.25 0.03 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 4.76 1.52 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 428.95 3.04 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 82.26 15.26 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Conclusion: Sandisk is a faster card and is 5% faster in the EX1 than the Transcend. I'm keeping my Ultra, I'll use it as the first go-to SDHC card (until I get my 32MB Ultra), then I'll use my Transcends if I need to.

October 15th, 2008, 11:04 AM	#619
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Silly question but do you have the latest firmware ? V1.11. I'm using transcend and kensington, not a single problem yet. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

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October 15th, 2008, 09:21 AM	#616
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	John: in my experience, when camera recognizes IOC combo, it works just fine. It is however unpleasant to see the camera Not recognizing the combo sometimes. It will take a couple cycles of taking adapter out of cam and re-inserting it, or powering cam down then up again; for the combo to be recognized. I would never recommend this kind of play during the live shoot; instead, allocate 2 minutes for this before the shoot. It's more like, set it and forget it kind of thing - if you have a long shoot like an interview or a concert, just have the cam recognize the combo, and roll. I've never seen the combo fail after it was recognized by the cam. (Unless you power the cam down - then you'll have to repeat the procedure, or not - it's a crap shoot.) After an hour (for 16Gb card capacity), provide a minute or two of downtime for changing the combos, in case the cam requires re-inserting them to be recognized. Again: this does NOT look like an acceptable procedure to me if you were planning on changing the IOCxS combos live while camera was still recording. Kensington adapter (that I do not own yet) apparently does not give this grief, albeit at 3x the IOC Buy'com's price (if you never even count the IOC rebate.)

October 15th, 2008, 10:50 AM	#618
John Woo Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 160	just got my Kensington 7-in-1 media reader and Sandisk Ultra 2 16GB SDHC card, pop it into EX1, nothing happened, EX1 not seeing the card reader. Took it out and pop it into my Sony Vaio, detected it as G drive, although my SDHC card is inserted it still asked me to 'insert a disk into removable drive'. Tried to do a format from my Vaio, it say 'no disk in drive G' tried with my other Transcend 4GB SDHC class 6 card, same observation. Damm , waited so long for my setup and this is the outcome. Do you think I got a faulty Kensington card?

October 15th, 2008, 11:08 AM	#620
John Woo Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Singapore Posts: 160	Yes, mine were upgraded to 1.11_0531 I have been following this thread from day 1 that's why I went ahead to buy the Keningston card reader.

October 15th, 2008, 11:12 AM	#621
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Hmm... Maybe defective Kensington? I own four that work fine.

October 15th, 2008, 03:22 PM	#628
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	At least at this point, I have a feeling we will not be able to get the full 60FPS overcrank regardless on what SDHC / expresscard combo. Alister, has an expresscard reader in his PC that is capable of USB protocol. He tested the Kensington/SDHC card (I can't remember which SDHC card), he was at over 15MB/s datarate. The same datarate seen using the SDHC card reader in his PC. Overcranking 60FPS at 24P is approx. 12.5MB/s, so the bottleneck appears to be the EX. Sony might of crippled the USB data transfer, or something or another. Again, this may explain why their own PHU-60K (USB drive) barely runs HQ modes and will not work for overcrank.

October 15th, 2008, 03:32 PM	#629
Alex Raskin Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 1,435	Yes, I just want to see what headroom do we have with Transcend cards, which I personally have not tested yet.