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-   -   New strange image problem with my EX1 (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-pro-handhelds/135377-new-strange-image-problem-my-ex1.html)

Ola Christoffersson October 7th, 2008 08:30 AM

New strange image problem with my EX1
 
I have had my camera since december and just discovered a problem I have never seen before:

Sometimes, quite often, there is a disturbance in the image. It looks very similar to the rolling effect when recording with a 50 fps shutter in 60 Hz lights. Only this happens outdoors in daylight.

Here you can see a clip:

Rolling shadow problem EX1 By Ola Christoffersson On ExposureRoom

I have not seen this before in the hundreds of hours of video I have recorded since I got the camera. It only showed up last week. Factors that could be involved here is my new Letus adapter and the fact that the camera has been to Sony for repairs and 1.11 firmware upgrade.

At first I though it was some kind of interference with my new Letus but to my big surprise it is still there when I take the Letus off.

It is coming and going and I cannot make out a typical scenario when it happens. It seems like it is starting after moving the camera or iris (maybe) and then settles down after a few seconds. I am not certain though!

I thought I'd ask you guys for help before I call Sony. Anyone seen anything like this? What could it be? Is the camera broken.

I should also add that it happens with shutter both on and off (180 degrees).

Steven Thomas October 7th, 2008 08:42 AM

Ola,
I'm not sure how ofter you're seeing this issue, but based on that footage I would send the camera in to Sony along with a CD that has an this example footage.
This looks like it's something to do with the CMOS rolling shutter.

Dave Morrison October 7th, 2008 08:57 AM

A dumb question, but is the Motion Stabilization turned on when this happens?

Jay Gladwell October 7th, 2008 09:09 AM

Ola, this is what I was seeing in my brand new EX3 just a few days ago (I posted a question about it "Rolling Shadow"). You've described it (and shown it) perfectly!

To make a long story short, to fix another problem I wound up using the "All Reset" button in the Others menu. Since I've done that, the camera hasn't had that problem.

Hope this helps!

Ola Christoffersson October 7th, 2008 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Morrison (Post 947899)
A dumb question, but is the Motion Stabilization turned on when this happens?

It is off.

Ola Christoffersson October 7th, 2008 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Gladwell (Post 947906)
Ola, this is what I was seeing in my brand new EX3 just a few days ago (I posted a question about it "Rolling Shadow"). You've described it (and shown it) perfectly!

To make a long story short, to fix another problem I wound up using the "All Reset" button in the Others menu. Since I've done that, the camera hasn't had that problem.

Hope this helps!

That's very interesting. I will try that tomorrow! Thank you for your help.

Alister Chapman October 7th, 2008 09:54 AM

Is the flicker reduction turned off? Depending on your region settings flicker reduction can cause flicker!

Ola Christoffersson October 7th, 2008 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman (Post 947932)
Is the flicker reduction turned off? Depending on your region settings flicker reduction can cause flicker!

Ah!! That could be it. I believe it is on automatic. I have been experimenting with it when filming 60 Hz computer monitors recently so I might have changed it. I will check tomorrow and let you know if that is it...

Jay Gladwell October 7th, 2008 08:21 PM

Since I had this same problem, I took this issue over the Sony Vegas forum to see if anyone there had experienced this same problem.

One poster said the "rolling shutter" effect could be discounted because the illumination is constant. She said it looked like a defect in readout, possibly confirmed if the All Reset fixed it.

She also said electrical interference causes such effects (radars particularly, and mobile transmitters) -- that can be checked by it being location dependant (unless it's your cell phone).

Another poster wrote that he had this with his EX1, in daylight as well as under lights. He said that turning off Flicker Reduction in the Camera Menu seems to have cured it.

I contacted the dealer (Alpha Cine) and they are looking into it. They even went so far as to contact Sony. Will post the answer as soon as I get it.

John Woo October 7th, 2008 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Gladwell (Post 947906)
Ola, this is what I was seeing in my brand new EX3 just a few days ago (I posted a question about it "Rolling Shadow"). You've described it (and shown it) perfectly!

To make a long story short, to fix another problem I wound up using the "All Reset" button in the Others menu. Since I've done that, the camera hasn't had that problem.

Hope this helps!

May I know when you execute the "All Rest" button, will all the settings return to factory default? And will the profile setting be gone too?

Back to Ola's issue, I have also encountered this under indoor lighting, and my most recent encounter was during an outdoor shoot 2 weeks ago. As it was an imprtant shoot, I was panic and don't know what to do, then I quickly switched to full auto and the flickering went away. Switching back to manual mode and dod not see the flickering again. Strange!!

Steven Thomas October 7th, 2008 09:19 PM

Actually indoor lighting is possible. We all know these CMOS rolling shutter based cameras can show this exact condition under older low-frequency fluorescent or HMI lights.

Adam Reuter October 7th, 2008 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ola Christoffersson (Post 947971)
Ah!! That could be it. I believe it is on automatic. I have been experimenting with it when filming 60 Hz computer monitors recently so I might have changed it. I will check tomorrow and let you know if that is it...

That could be it. Flicker reduction was designed for shooting under flourescent lighting (non-production, i.e. crappy). If you want to shoot computer monitors use the ECS shutter mode.

Serena Steuart October 7th, 2008 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Woo (Post 948133)
when you execute the "All Reset" button, will all the settings return to factory default? And will the profile setting be gone too?

Yes, everything goes back to factory default.

Jon Sands October 7th, 2008 10:03 PM

I had the exact same problem, resolved it 100% by turning off flicker reduction.

Mike Mona October 7th, 2008 11:26 PM

May it be you cellular phone? I noticed when the phone is checking the cell, it is buzzing into my computer speakers from 3 to 5 feet away. My old CRT monitor was doing same rolling flicker because of my cell phone.

I can not test it myself right now but I suggest to put your cell phone close to the camera while recording, ring the phone, and check the recording to see if it had any interference or not.

thx,
Mike


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