EX3 HD-SDI is NOT PsF Requires Pull Down at DVinfo.net

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Old October 21st, 2008, 12:29 PM   #1
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EX3 HD-SDI is NOT PsF Requires Pull Down

I've been giving my EX3's SDI port a shake down with a some disappointing discoveries:

a) confirmed this morning with Sony Broadcast Technical Support
b) confirmed this with Blackmagic Design engineers since my Mutlibridge Extreme does indeed properly support the capture of HD-SDI 1080PsF/23.98/24 signals.

The EX3 HD-SDI port does NOT support PsF "progressive segmented frame" output. This means that 1080/24p video is output as a 60i signal which requires a traditional 2:3 pull down to recover a true 24P video signal.

This totally contradicts Sony's Mr. Juan A. Martinez August 26, 2008 e-mail statement quoted as follows:

"We added PsF to the EX3 and EX1 HDSDI EE output due to user requests.
This feature enables capturing the EX's clean, live camera10-bit 4:2:2 progressive signal directly by NLE. The NLE's capture utility recognizes the PsF payload as a true signal and stores it as such. PsF frees the user from having to apply reverse telecine such as Adobe After-Effects or Cinema Tools in post to remove pull down."

According to Sony's Tech Support person that I spoke with in person with this morning, TRUE PsF is a feature that will be added at some future date in a firmware update. There will be an HD-SDI menu item to select between 60i "pull down" and true 24PsF.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 03:25 PM   #2
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Sony's Formal Reply October 21, 2008

As per out phone conversation, the PMW-EX3, when set to HQ 1080/24p outputs a 1080/60i signal with 3:2 pull down thought the HD SDI output. This was verified with a PMW-EX3 from out product Sales Loaners.

I apologize for any misunderstanding for the capabilities of the PMW-EX3 that you may have read.

Sincerely,

Douglas Bierschenk
Product Support Specialist
Product Operations Support Center
Sony Electronics Inc.
Tel: (800) 883-6817
Fax: (201) 833-5210

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Old October 21st, 2008, 03:34 PM   #3
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How else can 24PsF be done other than to add pulldown?
Without pulldown you'd get 48i.
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Old October 21st, 2008, 06:23 PM   #4
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Surprise->Surprise 24PsF(actually 23.98PsF) DOES INDEED EXIST!

Dear Mr. Anwender:

I may have spoken in incorrectly. It seems that you may be able to have 1080/24PsF as long as you are in HQ 1080/24p. If you go to the OTHERS menu, and change the GENLOCK - 24P System Menu item from 60i to 24PsF, then you should get 1080/24PsF out the HDSDI. By default, it is set to 60i.

Again, I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Sincerely,

Douglas Bierschenk
Product Support Specialist
Product Operations Support Center
Sony Electronics Inc.
Tel: (800) 883-6817
Fax: (201) 833-5210

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Old October 21st, 2008, 08:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barry J. Anwender View Post
Dear Mr. Anwender:

The EX1/3 are totally awesome, and all other cameras strive to be as good.

Again, I apologize for any misunderstanding.

Sincerely,

Douglas Bierschenk
Product Support Specialist
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Sony Electronics Inc.
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I completely agree. :)
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Old October 21st, 2008, 09:25 PM   #6
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Indeed! I am pretty amazed by the quality of the video coming off the SDI port. My apologies to Mr. Martinez. The folks over at BlackMagic Design are also duly impressed that true 1080PsF is now available on this HD camera. So SMPTE video standards do work for HD video because I've had my Multibridge Extreme for four years running.

Although the EX3 manual needs to be updated in the HD-SDI section to clearly point out the 1080P, 60i 2:3 pull down and the 23.98PsF Genlock options. It is obscurely mentioned in the fine print notes at the bottom of Page 142.

Last edited by Barry J. Anwender; October 22nd, 2008 at 10:29 AM.
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Old October 22nd, 2008, 04:30 AM   #7
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Magic.

Here's hoping we get 25PsF and 30PsF in an update too.

Jus.
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 02:48 PM   #8
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I read the 24PsF mode will be in the latest firmware... also for the EX1.
I never saw the genlock option on the EX1... How do we achieve than then ?

Another question is : what are the HD-SDI mode when shooting in 25p ? in 30p ?

Thanks.
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 03:55 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastien Thomas View Post
I read the 24PsF mode will be in the latest firmware... also for the EX1.
It is in the EX1 (1.11) and it works fine.
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 04:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebastien Thomas View Post
I read the 24PsF mode will be in the latest firmware... also for the EX1.
I never saw the genlock option on the EX1... How do we achieve than then ?

Another question is : what are the HD-SDI mode when shooting in 25p ? in 30p ?

Thanks.
Hi Sebastien. I'm pretty sure it is implemented in the EX1 the same way as it is in the EX3. In the menu "Others", scroll down to a sub-menu called "Genlock" and in it you will find an option to set either to 60i (default) or to 24PsF. At this time, it only works in the HQ 1080/24P video format.

In PAL video formats there is no need for pull down to get your 25p.

In NTSC video formats the 30p is embedded in a 60i signal and you will have to a 3:2 pull down to remove the duplicate frames. In FCP this amounts to doing a reverse telecine that make a command call on Cinema Tools to do the actual pull down. In Windows systems a reverse telecine in Adobe After Effects. Cheers!
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Old October 23rd, 2008, 04:32 PM   #11
 
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It's a bit different in the EX1.

First, you need to be sure you're in 1080p/24 mode. Then, scroll to the HD-SDI output settings in the VIDEO SET menu. At the bottom of this sub-menu is the feature you want, altho' it's not labelled genlock. If you don't select the 1080p24 mode, this menu item will be grayed out.
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