Does an HDV Dub / Copy with EX-1 Lose Quality? at DVinfo.net

Adam Reuter · November 11th, 2008, 11:16 PM

Since HDV is a compressed format how exactly does the dubbing process work. Is it more akin to copying data from a computer to a data tape backup (virtual 1:1 copy) or does it recompress/have generation loss like VHS?

More specifically if I were to dub an HDV tape recorded with an FX-1 to the Sony EX-1's SP mode would there be quality loss or is it essentially data transfer that is lossless, less the compression done by the first run through HDV.

The reason I ask is I may have a second shooter with an EX1 and would like to copy his tape on-location to a SxS card rather than borrow his camera to use as a deck.

Tom Roper · November 11th, 2008, 11:32 PM

I think what you're saying is you would like to dub directly from the FX1 to the EX1 which would be a realtime tape playback over the firewire, with the EX1 recording the output. I guess you could do that, I don't know that for sure, but if you can there surely is going to be a generational loss as the EX1 records to SP.

It's not a file capture as I see it. So I could be wrong but I think that's the issue.

Peter Kraft · November 12th, 2008, 01:59 AM

Adam, which HDV camera will your second shooter use?
If it's a compatible one, give him a Sony MRC1K to record his takes on
CF card (see "EX1 and MRC1" thread on this forum for further details).

To ingest the clips from the CF card convert them to HDV with the ClipWrap app
on a Mac. Import these clips into your NLE. Clipwrap does nor alter the content
of the source material but rather rewraps these m2t clips to quicktime .mov
files.

This workflow makes sure that you have HDV clips in absolutely pristine
HDV quality. CF cards cost you a fraction of Sxs Cards.
With a CF card reader ( $ 15) you can copy their content onto a laptop for
further treatment.

Hope this helps. P.

Peter Kraft · November 12th, 2008, 02:19 AM

Adam, ah, I misunderstood your situation.
You have an FX1 and your co-shooter comes with an EX1? correct?

In that case he should use SDHC (combo of kensington Expresscard reader
with Sandisk SDHC Extreme card(s) on the EX1. See related thread in this forum.
Very easy, very reliable.

Do not try and tansfer from EX1 to FX1 via firewire as that incurs a decode
(EX1 > Firewire) plus an encode (Firewire >EX1) step. Use the SP material
on the EX1's SDHC cards and ingest it directly into your (HDV-) NLE.

Or copy the content of his Sxs/Kxs cards onto your laptop.
Way faster then transfering their content to a slow HDV tape.

Bob Grant · November 12th, 2008, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam Reuter

Since HDV is a compressed format how exactly does the dubbing process work. Is it more akin to copying data from a computer to a data tape backup (virtual 1:1 copy) or does it recompress/have generation loss like VHS?

More specifically if I were to dub an HDV tape recorded with an FX-1 to the Sony EX-1's SP mode would there be quality loss or is it essentially data transfer that is lossless, less the compression done by the first run through HDV.

The reason I ask is I may have a second shooter with an EX1 and would like to copy his tape on-location to a SxS card rather than borrow his camera to use as a deck.

I don't think the EX1 will record from the firewire port. For SP footage you can record from that port to a HDV VCR. As far as I know that would be a lossless data transfer in effect. Because it is lossless with no re-encode you cannot do that with HQ files.

Adam Reuter · November 13th, 2008, 01:47 AM

Oops, sorry about that everyone. I meant to say "second shooter with an FX-1." I'm the EX-1 owner. Sony made it too easy to get those two models confused, LOL!

I guess what I'll just do is have to borrow/rent his camera and hook it up to my desktop computer. Sony MRC1K would be the ideal situation but ideal = $$$ which I don't have at the moment.

Peter Kraft · November 13th, 2008, 07:22 AM

Is renting an MRC1K an option?

P.

November 11th, 2008, 11:16 PM	#1
Adam Reuter Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 234	Does an HDV Dub / Copy with EX-1 Lose Quality? Since HDV is a compressed format how exactly does the dubbing process work. Is it more akin to copying data from a computer to a data tape backup (virtual 1:1 copy) or does it recompress/have generation loss like VHS? More specifically if I were to dub an HDV tape recorded with an FX-1 to the Sony EX-1's SP mode would there be quality loss or is it essentially data transfer that is lossless, less the compression done by the first run through HDV. The reason I ask is I may have a second shooter with an EX1 and would like to copy his tape on-location to a SxS card rather than borrow his camera to use as a deck.

November 12th, 2008, 02:19 AM	#4
Peter Kraft Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 245	Adam, ah, I misunderstood your situation. You have an FX1 and your co-shooter comes with an EX1? correct? In that case he should use SDHC (combo of kensington Expresscard reader with Sandisk SDHC Extreme card(s) on the EX1. See related thread in this forum. Very easy, very reliable. Do not try and tansfer from EX1 to FX1 via firewire as that incurs a decode (EX1 > Firewire) plus an encode (Firewire >EX1) step. Use the SP material on the EX1's SDHC cards and ingest it directly into your (HDV-) NLE. Or copy the content of his Sxs/Kxs cards onto your laptop. Way faster then transfering their content to a slow HDV tape. Last edited by Peter Kraft; November 12th, 2008 at 05:03 AM.

November 11th, 2008, 11:32 PM	#2
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	I think what you're saying is you would like to dub directly from the FX1 to the EX1 which would be a realtime tape playback over the firewire, with the EX1 recording the output. I guess you could do that, I don't know that for sure, but if you can there surely is going to be a generational loss as the EX1 records to SP. It's not a file capture as I see it. So I could be wrong but I think that's the issue.

November 12th, 2008, 01:59 AM	#3
Peter Kraft Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 245	Adam, which HDV camera will your second shooter use? If it's a compatible one, give him a Sony MRC1K to record his takes on CF card (see "EX1 and MRC1" thread on this forum for further details). To ingest the clips from the CF card convert them to HDV with the ClipWrap app on a Mac. Import these clips into your NLE. Clipwrap does nor alter the content of the source material but rather rewraps these m2t clips to quicktime .mov files. This workflow makes sure that you have HDV clips in absolutely pristine HDV quality. CF cards cost you a fraction of Sxs Cards. With a CF card reader ( $ 15) you can copy their content onto a laptop for further treatment. Hope this helps. P.

November 13th, 2008, 01:47 AM	#6
Adam Reuter Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Baltimore, Maryland Posts: 234	Oops, sorry about that everyone. I meant to say "second shooter with an FX-1." I'm the EX-1 owner. Sony made it too easy to get those two models confused, LOL! I guess what I'll just do is have to borrow/rent his camera and hook it up to my desktop computer. Sony MRC1K would be the ideal situation but ideal = $$$ which I don't have at the moment.

November 13th, 2008, 07:22 AM	#7
Peter Kraft Major Player Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Europe Posts: 245	Is renting an MRC1K an option? P.