Is it the ex1 or vimeo? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 24th, 2008, 06:59 PM   #1
New Boot
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 11
Is it the ex1 or vimeo?

Okay, I've entered that third tier of hell: staring at sample videos of the few cameras I'm debating between AGAIN AND AGAIN. Before my girlfriend murders me, I need your help. In more than a few ex1 videos I've watched on vimeo, there seems to be a subtle frame jump every second or so. Is this an issue with the camera (the processor/memory filling up and jumping a little bit or the pulldown equation) or with vimeo's compression?
Answers strongly appreciated.

thanks.
__________________
dvx100, macs, fcp, documentaryisneverneutral.com
Sam Alcoff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 07:11 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Boston
Posts: 496
Definately Vimeo. None of my HD footage does that on the monitor in edit or on the videocam screen, but most of my larger file size Vimeo vids are jumpy.

Put away the local listing directory for battered mens' shelters, your girlfriend now owes you an apology which she may promptly prove by buying you either Snap-On brand tools or perhaps a wide angle EX1 conversion lens or carbon fiber Manfrotto tripod would suffice. ;)
__________________
Dave -
Dave Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 07:28 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Posts: 107
Vimeo for sure. None of my ex1 footage has that oddity on exposureroom, while editing, viewed on camera, etc.
Jon Sands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 07:45 PM   #4
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 77
It's Vimeo, no worries with the camera.
Chad Hucal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 07:47 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,778
Vimeo encodes to 720p24. This means that if you upload at 30fps (or 25fps in PAL land) Vimeo will do a very bad frame rate conversion.

I've complained to them about this but they insist most people don't have the bandwidth to play back 720p30.

Personally I'd rather that they do that then drop frame they way they do which makes HD look bad UNLESS you actually shoot 24fps.

In short everything HD not shot at 24fps exhibits the issue on Vimeo you're seeing. Good eye that you noticed it. I do too and have complained. I wish others would too especially since they now charge $60/year for those bad HD frame rate encodes.
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 07:51 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,778
BTW, not sure what other cameras you're considering but the EX series really beats everything else in its price class and is fairly competitive against some more expensive cameras.
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 11:41 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 628
anybody notice youtube went HD? It's like vimeo now.. even the old videos will look different... sort of.. LOL

old vid

YouTube - Four Stroke Wars Dumont 11-08-08
Erik Phairas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 24th, 2008, 11:44 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,778
Erik, please see this thread regarding YouTube.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/digital-v...tml#post968578
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2008, 03:19 PM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 2,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Seeman View Post
Vimeo encodes to 720p24. This means that if you upload at 30fps (or 25fps in PAL land) Vimeo will do a very bad frame rate conversion.

I've complained to them about this but they insist most people don't have the bandwidth to play back 720p30.
Vimeo is just nutty on this issue. No 30 fps ? I shoot a lot of 720p60, and that should survive the frame rate conversion to 24 fps better.
Gints Klimanis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 25th, 2008, 04:47 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,778
They seemed quite defensive about their decision too. They said they attempted 30fps briefly but they got lots of complaints. There are good and bad ways to convert p60 to p24. They're obviously doing a not so "intelligent" conversion (probably for the sake of speed).

They believe that many computers can't decode 720p30 On2VP6 fast enough. They claimed people were complaining about dropped frames . . . so instead they do a bad conversion to 24p for all of those shooting 25p, 30p, 50p, 60p, ensuring EVERYONE gets dropped frames. I don't want to be too derogatory but "nutty" is appropriate IMHO.

As you might see elsewhere on DVinfo, YouTube is moving to 720p HD.
YouTube Blog
and
YouTube Experiments with High-Quality Video - PC World
and this thread on DVinfo
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/digital-v...ion-video.html
They're still in the "experimental" stage. People have found that it's not just a wider screen in the blog but there's 720p playback and the belief is that it may well be 720p30 (and I'd guess 25p for those uploading PAL).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis View Post
Vimeo is just nutty on this issue. No 30 fps ? I shoot a lot of 720p60, and that should survive the frame rate conversion to 24 fps better.
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:43 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network