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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old December 9th, 2008, 04:04 PM   #31
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Perrone, I understand and respect if you don't find these as weaknesses, but I must have the right to express that I find them to be weaknesses in my use of the camera as wildlife shooter. I just wanted to point them out for Ralph, then it's up to him if he thinks they are a weakness for him.

I can withdraw the complaint about having to rewrap as there seems to be NLE supporting it.
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Old December 9th, 2008, 04:12 PM   #32
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On the EX1 surely when you close the LCD it goes off? On the EX3 the LCD is part of the viewfinder so you can't turn it off or you can't see anything! What batteries are you using? When I tried an EX1 the tiny little batteries it uses lasted about 5 hours! Each one probably weighs a tenth of my batteries that only last 45 minutes.
On the white balance side, it shouldn't be hard to correct, in FCP you just pick a white point and click and it balances, you can even go from a tungsten to daylight extreme and it'll still balance. This is the way it tends to be done in professional wildlife work, leaving the camera on a preset (5600k for example). And of course in film days on Super 16 and 35mm you couldn't set WB at all, you could use colour correction filters but we didn't usually bother, even when using 500T tungsten balanced film in daylight, as you'd lost half a stop or so. It corrected perfectly in grading.
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Old December 9th, 2008, 04:14 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marten Dalfors View Post
Perrone, I understand and respect if you don't find these as weaknesses, but I must have the right to express that I find them to be weaknesses in my use of the camera as wildlife shooter. I just wanted to point them out for Ralph, then it's up to him if he thinks they are a weakness for him.

I can withdraw the complaint about having to rewrap as there seems to be NLE supporting it.
Marten,

I guess the term "weakness" to me signifies that something is common and customary among peers but missing in the member being discussed. For instance, if we were talking about racing cars and 9 of 10 had outstanding brakes and one had mediocre brakes, then I'd see that as a weakness. However, in this instance, I think you are comparing a apples and oranges (still camera to video camera) and calling some of the things weaknesses.

I can absolutely understand your points. Especially when it comes to having to get to things through menus, and perhaps how a fundamental change in how you operate is required to use this different tool. So I think my disagreement with your is more about semantics than about anything else. I'm sorry if it seemed like I was just being contrary. Again, that is not my intent, and I certainly don't mean on your right to express your opinions. I hope you understand that.

As to the re-wrap issue, I think many NLEs will support it soon. Sony's own editing program requires the re-wrap at this point, and I am confident that will change rather soon.
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Old December 9th, 2008, 08:13 PM   #34
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Has anyone had a chance to compare the Convergent Design XDR results from each of the Canon XL H1s and the EX1 or EX3?

Alan Emery
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Old December 9th, 2008, 11:32 PM   #35
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The original question was EX for wildlife versus Canon. I have and still use both cameras. Overall, at 60i in daylight, the images from both cams can be stunning and are comparable.

The EX doesn't strut until you go 24p, overcrank it or shoot in low light.
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Old December 9th, 2008, 11:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Phillipps View Post
On the EX1 surely when you close the LCD it goes off? On the EX3 the LCD is part of the viewfinder so you can't turn it off or you can't see anything! What batteries are you using? When I tried an EX1 the tiny little batteries it uses lasted about 5 hours! Each one probably weighs a tenth of my batteries that only last 45 minutes.
On the white balance side, it shouldn't be hard to correct, in FCP you just pick a white point and click and it balances, you can even go from a tungsten to daylight extreme and it'll still balance. This is the way it tends to be done in professional wildlife work, leaving the camera on a preset (5600k for example). And of course in film days on Super 16 and 35mm you couldn't set WB at all, you could use colour correction filters but we didn't usually bother, even when using 500T tungsten balanced film in daylight, as you'd lost half a stop or so. It corrected perfectly in grading.
Steve
In stills when you have a jpg and color correct it to much in post you loose quality in the image compared to capturing it correctly. Thats one reson to use RAW. Is video different?

From my experience I can just say that in cold weather the batterie don't last 5 hours. If I'm doing a project in a remote location with no power supply I need a lot of batteries even if I'm only filming a few minutes. With my still camera, one battery will last for a month when in standby mode and it's always ready to shoot.
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Old December 10th, 2008, 12:08 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Marten Dalfors View Post
In stills when you have a jpg and color correct it to much in post you loose quality in the image compared to capturing it correctly. Thats one reson to use RAW. Is video different?
It can be. One reason to transcode video files to 10 bit codecs is to give ample room for image manipulation and recalculation of colors. JPG images in stills do not have the bit space for this and thus truncate colors and you lose quality. Video will do the same if you don't use a codec that offers space for it. If I am going to be doing a lot of color grading on something, I'll take it straight to a 10-bit codec (Aja or similar) do my work, then render out to my finished format.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marten Dalfors View Post
From my experience I can just say that in cold weather the batterie don't last 5 hours. If I'm doing a project in a remote location with no power supply I need a lot of batteries even if I'm only filming a few minutes. With my still camera, one battery will last for a month when in standby mode and it's always ready to shoot.
I am not aware of ANY video cameras that do this. Seems like a cool feature, but maybe it's deemed unnecessary in video work.
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Old December 10th, 2008, 09:45 AM   #38
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For a normal day's shoot I use 2 BPU60s usually with power to spare. I keep the supplied battery as back up.
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Old December 10th, 2008, 04:01 PM   #39
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I am a professional nature photographer who also moved to video quite recently.
I have been using the EX3 shooting wildlife for the last 3 months. I mostly use Nikon manual focus ED lenses - 80-200 f2.8, 300 f2.8, 400 f3.5, 500 f4, 600 f5.6.

The results are simply mind-blowing.

Will hopefully post some footage on VIMEO soon.

If you got any questions - please feel free to send me a PM or ask in here.

Cheers,

http://www.oferlevyphotography.com
SYdeny-Australia

Last edited by Ofer Levy; December 11th, 2008 at 02:41 AM.
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Old December 11th, 2008, 11:29 PM   #40
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So, Ralph............

Any thoughts?

Any the wiser?

Any help?

Where to from here?


CS
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Old December 21st, 2008, 01:18 PM   #41
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Its also worth noting that the XL-H1 has true 4-channel audio... i can not, for the life of me, understand why everyone overlooks that critical feature when comparing cameras!

It has also been discussed quite frequently that Discovery airs many shows shot entirely on HDV... the rules about which cameras are acceptable is not set in stone.
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Old December 21st, 2008, 01:31 PM   #42
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Its also worth noting that the XL-H1 has true 4-channel audio... i can not, for the life of me, understand why everyone overlooks that critical feature when comparing cameras!
Can't speak for anyone else, but for me, I record my audio separately to a better recorder than my camera. I suspect any pro would do the same and with better gear than mine.

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It has also been discussed quite frequently that Discovery airs many shows shot entirely on HDV... the rules about which cameras are acceptable is not set in stone.
Maybe not, but need some pretty compelling footage to get them to buy off, or so I am told.
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Old December 21st, 2008, 03:05 PM   #43
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Its also worth noting that the XL-H1 has true 4-channel audio... i can not, for the life of me, understand why everyone overlooks that critical feature when comparing cameras!
Perhaps because 12 bit 32Khz 4 channel audio doesn't meet the quality rates of a lot of shooters who are used to the 16 bit 48Khz standard. 12 bit 32Khz is fine for the spoken word but I wouldn't want to record a symphony with that setting and expect it to sound good. Having said that, I record 4 channel audio with my XL2 all the time when I need to use multiple radio mics.

Just for the sake of others who may not know it, the XL-H1 does record 16 bit 48K as well but is restricted to 2 channels.

- Don
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Old December 21st, 2008, 03:27 PM   #44
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4-channel audio with HDV is not the same as 4-channel audio with DV... With HDV the sampling rate and quality is exactly the same, it just switches to MPEG2 audio compression, which is more efficient, and therefore takes up less space!
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Old December 21st, 2008, 03:31 PM   #45
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Its also worth noting that the XL-H1 has true 4-channel audio... i can not, for the life of me, understand why everyone overlooks that critical feature when comparing cameras!

It has also been discussed quite frequently that Discovery airs many shows shot entirely on HDV... the rules about which cameras are acceptable is not set in stone.
Is it uncompressed? How valuable is that for most people? The fact the EX has uncompressed audio?

Also, Discovery told me they only allow 20% HDV material per show. But if you have 45 minutes of real UFO's firing death rays on major cities, I doubt they hold to that rule.
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