HD>SD downconversion Mac/FCP only

[Mitchell Lewis]

I've created a PNG file and I'm uploading it now. It's going to take a while as it's 150 mb. (about 15 minutes)

http://www.ssscc.org/ftp/hd-sd/Test-(PNG).mov

EDIT: Okay it's uploaded.

[Perrone Ford]

Are you sure of the name? And permissions?

[Mitchell Lewis]

Sorry, there was a typo in the name (MOV not MPV) I fixed it.

[Perrone Ford]

Processing ...

Done. Images coming!

DVInfo is acting dumb. Check here.
http://vimeo.com/groups/8264/files

[Mitchell Lewis]

Dang! Very nice Perrone! Too bad you're not on a Mac, I'd love to duplicate your work flow. I haven't given up on Compressor yet though.

Anything that I could benefit from on a Mac? (since this IS a Mac/FCP thread)

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Mitchell Lewis

Dang! Very nice Perrone! Too bad you're not on a Mac, I'd love to duplicate your work flow. I haven't given up on Compressor yet though.

Anything that I could benefit from on a Mac? (since this IS a Mac/FCP thread)

There has GOT to be some software application out there that uses the underlying rescale algorithm that I am using. The Lanczos one. Its FEELY available for goodness sakes.

Are you running bootcamp? It might be worth it for you to run some of these tools that I have. Especially, the stuff in Virtualdub since it's all free. The denoising programs available rival that $1k stuff I see people raving about. And you've seen the rescaler. There are also sophisticated tools for framerate conversion, color space conversion, etc. And they are all free.

[Dominik Seibold]

Mitchell, I will say it one more time, but if you don't listen to me I can't help you:
if you compress with a YUV-format like DV, then there's chroma-subsampling going on, so features with strong saturation-jumps + hue-jumps + luma-jumps will look pixelated or blurred. There's nothing you can do against it but using a non-YUV-format or decreasing saturation.
Try to use QTs uncompressed setting and you'll see the difference.

[Peter Kraft]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

There has GOT to be some software application out there that uses the underlying rescale algorithm that I am using. The Lanczos one. Its FEELY available for goodness sakes.

Yeah, it must be somewhere. Does anybody know which algorithm Cinema Craft is based upon, given its exceptionally oustanding results? With the new CC plugin for Compressor, that might be the road to go for high end encodings.

[Peter Kraft]

Originally Posted by Dominik Seibold

Mitchell.... There's nothing you can do against it but using a non-YUV-format or decreasing saturation. Try to use QTs uncompressed setting and you'll see the difference.

Would ProRes be a viable solution? And/or which other codecs?

[Dominik Seibold]

Originally Posted by Peter Kraft

Yeah, it must be somewhere.

Compressor is doing exactly the same than lanczos. I posted an example to show that, but who realizes it?

Originally Posted by Peter Kraft

Does anybody know which algorithm Cinema Craft is based upon, given its exceptionally oustanding results?

I guess we are talking about rescaling, not mpeg2-encoding. Or do you really want to know, how CCEs mpeg2-engine works?

Originally Posted by Peter Kraft

Would ProRes be a viable solution? And/or which other codecs?

ProRes uses 4:2:2, so it's not a "solution" for that problem. There's no solution, because all formats used by DVD, BluRay,... use chroma-subsampling. You have to live with that and to hope that end-consumer-playback-devices use proper chroma-filtering to transform pixelation to blurriness.

[Perrone Ford]

Originally Posted by Peter Kraft

Would ProRes be a viable solution? And/or which other codecs?

You need a codec which can handle RGB, and preferably 10-bit or higher. Prores is 10-bit, but yuv, not rgb. You'll note that I typically ask for QT PNG or Uncompressed. Both of these are RGB with alpha channel. I am still testing codecs, but right now am about to test 10 bit Avid.

[Peter Kraft]

Originally Posted by Dominik Seibold

Compressor is doing exactly the same than lanczos. I posted an example to show that, but who realizes it?

I have so far not found any hint about Compresor and Lanczos. But thx very much, will turn my radar more towards Compressor, albeit I don't like its GUI.

Originally Posted by Dominik Seibold

I guess we are talking about rescaling, not mpeg2-encoding. Or do you really want to know, how CCEs mpeg2-engine works?

Rescaling, which CCE MP, the plugin, does also.

Originally Posted by Dominik Seibold

ProRes uses 4:2:2, so it's not a "solution" for that problem. There's no solution, because all formats used by DVD, BluRay,... use chroma-subsampling. You have to live with that and to hope that end-consumer-playback-devices use proper chroma-filtering to transform pixelation to blurriness.

Is there a table with the subsampling specs of all known codecs? Or would you say ProRes is kind of "the best compromise". QT Uncompressed leads to extremely large files...

[Peter Kraft]

Fraunhofer Institut suggests JPEG2000 for a comparable task. Any comments on that?

[Peter Kraft]

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

Are you running bootcamp? It might be worth it for you to run some of these tools that I have. Especially, the stuff in Virtualdub since it's all free. The denoising programs available rival that $1k stuff I see people raving about. And you've seen the rescaler. There are also sophisticated tools for framerate conversion, color space conversion, etc. And they are all free.

Yes sir, I am. Which apps are you talking about? Would love to test them on my Mac turned WinMachine;-)

[Perrone Ford]

Based on my results tonight, and over the past few months of testing, Avi's DNxHD is giving results darn near equal to uncompressed at a fraction of the size. ProRes isn't close since it cannot do RGB with Alpha channels (unless someone know's sommething I don't).

Looks like this is my new mastering format! Sweet!

And it comes in Mac and PC versions, and the codec is free. Can't beat that.