Alternative recording devices at DVinfo.net

Michael B. McGee · March 8th, 2009, 10:06 AM

ok, it doesn't appear that anyone has shot with the Flash XDR, so has anyone used anything else. ie: AJA io HD, AJA Kona cards. i'm wondering what people's experiences have been with these alternative "higher" quality recording devices. is the quality of the image that much better then what you get with recording to the SxS cards? is the price worth it as well as the cumbersome hassle of being tethered to these decks/devices? how as the workflow been?

thanks.

John Richard · March 9th, 2009, 09:38 AM

We've shot a great deal recording to the XDR... but we have used the Canon XLH1 and the XHG1. Your other post indicated you were looking for files shot with a Sony EX1 - so we could be of no assistance.

The results from the XDR are superb! The only other choices I know of are to accept HDV - very usable most of the time, but definitely not in the class of XDCAM HD422.
Or be tethered to a Blackmagic or AJA card to computer. Or recording to a hugely expensive Codex box.

I am sure there are many out there who are recording the EX1 to an XDR. I wished I could help because you will notice a huge improvement in picture... and audio is recorded in 24 bit vs. 16 bit.

Additionally, somewhere down the road, the XDR will also become a hardware Blue Ray encoder.

Michael B. McGee · March 9th, 2009, 12:01 PM

Thanks John. yeah, i'm really looking for footage shot with either EX camera thru the HD/SDI port.

David Issko · March 9th, 2009, 05:03 PM

The XDR is too bulky to be piggy backed onto an EX camera on a consistent basis, hence the lack of EX/XDR recordings. When the nanoflash is released late May/early June (hopefully), then we will shortly thereafter start to discover the real potential of the EX cameras as the nanoflash is a compact unit designed to be mounted onto the EX.

I have one on order. Looking forward to it.

George Ridley · March 9th, 2009, 06:25 PM

I also would like to see the video recorded from the SDI port. I have no idea what devices are now on the market that can record it... My limited understanding is you do need a raid array in your computer, please correct me if I am wrong...Or better yet can someoe explain what options are there for recording SDI from the EX1

Regards George

David Issko · March 10th, 2009, 04:35 AM

The nanoflash will record from HDSDI/SDI output from the EX camera. It will record the embedded audio as well.

Michael P. Yates · March 10th, 2009, 09:28 AM

I just got finished shooting a short film with the EX1 (and Redrock m2 adapter) tethered to the mxo2, recording directly to my Mac Pro in Prores 422 HQ 1080, and I've got to say, it's significantly better looking than the footage off my SxS cards. 4:2:2 color and 10bit footage is incredibly useful when you're doing lots of color grading, and removing that damned chromatic aberration is remarkably easier. I didn't actually have much CA on this shoot since the 35mm adapter practically forces you to use the most ideal settings, but there is still just a little bit, and I removed it with a FCP plugin rather than my stronger AE plugins.

I highly recommend the mxo2 over the others, since it's much cheaper, and especially if you edit on FCP. I'll be posting a lot of blogs about the shoot soon!

Michael B. McGee · March 10th, 2009, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael P. Yates

I just got finished shooting a short film with the EX1 (and Redrock m2 adapter) tethered to the mxo2, recording directly to my Mac Pro in Prores 422 HQ 1080, and I've got to say, it's significantly better looking than the footage off my SxS cards. 4:2:2 color and 10bit footage is incredibly useful when you're doing lots of color grading, and removing that damned chromatic aberration is remarkably easier. I didn't actually have much CA on this shoot since the 35mm adapter practically forces you to use the most ideal settings, but there is still just a little bit, and I removed it with a FCP plugin rather than my stronger AE plugins.

I highly recommend the mxo2 over the others, since it's much cheaper, and especially if you edit on FCP. I'll be posting a lot of blogs about the shoot soon!

Great Michael. I can't wait to see the footage. Please post as soon as you can. I'm sure there is a lot of curious people who'd like to view it as well.

Michael P. Yates · March 10th, 2009, 11:15 AM

Here are some sample screen grabs. They aren't color graded yet. We're still working on that.

http://panopticonpictures.com/images/matador_5_2_8.jpg
http://panopticonpictures.com/images/matador_5_3.jpg
http://panopticonpictures.com/images/matador_5_5_7.jpg
http://panopticonpictures.com/images/matador_5_7_10.jpg
http://panopticonpictures.com/images...or_9_12_22.jpg

We're doing some motion graphics on a few shots, and it's very smooth. Prores is I frame only, so the rendering is pretty fast, too.

The only drawback I've found is that the setup doesn't support 24p yet. To some people this is a major hangup, but I've found shooting in 60i or 29.97 both give really nice results, and the film look is still achieved with the 35mm adapter.

Kevin Cates · March 11th, 2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael P. Yates

I didn't actually have much CA on this shoot since the 35mm adapter practically forces you to use the most ideal settings, but there is still just a little bit, and I removed it with a FCP plugin rather than my stronger AE plugins.

Hi Michael, could you share which FCP/AE plug in for correcting CA that works for you? thanks

Michael P. Yates · March 12th, 2009, 08:40 AM

I use DFT 55mm plugin pack on After Effects. It's available for FCP, too, but I can't get that version to work.

Michael P. Yates · March 18th, 2009, 12:21 PM

We've got a blog on the MXO2 on set for our short, now.

Panopticon Pictures

Dave Morrison · March 18th, 2009, 05:16 PM

Hi Michael. I've only had my MXO2 for a short time and have not yet done any SDI recording with it. Just curious about this scenario: if I was using the MXO2 in the field using my MacBook Pro and the ExpressCard interface, what data rates will my FW800 drive be able to handle?

Michael P. Yates · March 18th, 2009, 06:41 PM

From what I've read, firewire 800 will handle upwards of two Prores 422 1080 streams. On the Macbook Pro, you're still limited to DVCPROHD, though, which works just fine on FW800.

Andy Shipsides · March 21st, 2009, 01:59 PM

The Panasonic HPG20 - P2 Portable - would also be a great quality external recording option. Of course it requires an investment in P2 cards but you get 10 bit Full Raster AVC-Intra recording.

March 8th, 2009, 10:06 AM	#1
Michael B. McGee Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 318	Alternative recording devices ok, it doesn't appear that anyone has shot with the Flash XDR, so has anyone used anything else. ie: AJA io HD, AJA Kona cards. i'm wondering what people's experiences have been with these alternative "higher" quality recording devices. is the quality of the image that much better then what you get with recording to the SxS cards? is the price worth it as well as the cumbersome hassle of being tethered to these decks/devices? how as the workflow been? thanks.

March 9th, 2009, 05:03 PM	#4
David Issko Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 393	The XDR is too bulky to be piggy backed onto an EX camera on a consistent basis, hence the lack of EX/XDR recordings. When the nanoflash is released late May/early June (hopefully), then we will shortly thereafter start to discover the real potential of the EX cameras as the nanoflash is a compact unit designed to be mounted onto the EX. I have one on order. Looking forward to it. __________________ David Issko Edit 1 Video Productions

March 9th, 2009, 06:25 PM	#5
George Ridley New Boot Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Fountain Valley, CA Posts: 6	Recording the SDI output I also would like to see the video recorded from the SDI port. I have no idea what devices are now on the market that can record it... My limited understanding is you do need a raid array in your computer, please correct me if I am wrong...Or better yet can someoe explain what options are there for recording SDI from the EX1 Regards George

March 10th, 2009, 04:35 AM	#6
David Issko Major Player Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 393	The nanoflash will record from HDSDI/SDI output from the EX camera. It will record the embedded audio as well. __________________ David Issko Edit 1 Video Productions

March 18th, 2009, 05:16 PM	#13
Dave Morrison Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: West Central Florida Posts: 762	Hi Michael. I've only had my MXO2 for a short time and have not yet done any SDI recording with it. Just curious about this scenario: if I was using the MXO2 in the field using my MacBook Pro and the ExpressCard interface, what data rates will my FW800 drive be able to handle? __________________ EX1, Nikon D750 http://www.morrisonphotographics.com http://www.heritagefilm.com

March 9th, 2009, 09:38 AM	#2
John Richard Major Player Join Date: May 2006 Location: Incline Village, Nevada Posts: 604	We've shot a great deal recording to the XDR... but we have used the Canon XLH1 and the XHG1. Your other post indicated you were looking for files shot with a Sony EX1 - so we could be of no assistance. The results from the XDR are superb! The only other choices I know of are to accept HDV - very usable most of the time, but definitely not in the class of XDCAM HD422. Or be tethered to a Blackmagic or AJA card to computer. Or recording to a hugely expensive Codex box. I am sure there are many out there who are recording the EX1 to an XDR. I wished I could help because you will notice a huge improvement in picture... and audio is recorded in 24 bit vs. 16 bit. Additionally, somewhere down the road, the XDR will also become a hardware Blue Ray encoder.

March 9th, 2009, 12:01 PM	#3
Michael B. McGee Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Santa Monica, CA Posts: 318	Thanks John. yeah, i'm really looking for footage shot with either EX camera thru the HD/SDI port.

March 10th, 2009, 09:28 AM	#7
Michael P. Yates New Boot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Yellow Springs, OH Posts: 7	I just got finished shooting a short film with the EX1 (and Redrock m2 adapter) tethered to the mxo2, recording directly to my Mac Pro in Prores 422 HQ 1080, and I've got to say, it's significantly better looking than the footage off my SxS cards. 4:2:2 color and 10bit footage is incredibly useful when you're doing lots of color grading, and removing that damned chromatic aberration is remarkably easier. I didn't actually have much CA on this shoot since the 35mm adapter practically forces you to use the most ideal settings, but there is still just a little bit, and I removed it with a FCP plugin rather than my stronger AE plugins. I highly recommend the mxo2 over the others, since it's much cheaper, and especially if you edit on FCP. I'll be posting a lot of blogs about the shoot soon!

March 10th, 2009, 11:15 AM	#9
Michael P. Yates New Boot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Yellow Springs, OH Posts: 7	Here are some sample screen grabs. They aren't color graded yet. We're still working on that. http://panopticonpictures.com/images/matador_5_2_8.jpg http://panopticonpictures.com/images/matador_5_3.jpg http://panopticonpictures.com/images/matador_5_5_7.jpg http://panopticonpictures.com/images/matador_5_7_10.jpg http://panopticonpictures.com/images...or_9_12_22.jpg We're doing some motion graphics on a few shots, and it's very smooth. Prores is I frame only, so the rendering is pretty fast, too. The only drawback I've found is that the setup doesn't support 24p yet. To some people this is a major hangup, but I've found shooting in 60i or 29.97 both give really nice results, and the film look is still achieved with the 35mm adapter.

March 12th, 2009, 08:40 AM	#11
Michael P. Yates New Boot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Yellow Springs, OH Posts: 7	I use DFT 55mm plugin pack on After Effects. It's available for FCP, too, but I can't get that version to work.

March 18th, 2009, 12:21 PM	#12
Michael P. Yates New Boot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Yellow Springs, OH Posts: 7	We've got a blog on the MXO2 on set for our short, now. Panopticon Pictures

March 18th, 2009, 06:41 PM	#14
Michael P. Yates New Boot Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Yellow Springs, OH Posts: 7	From what I've read, firewire 800 will handle upwards of two Prores 422 1080 streams. On the Macbook Pro, you're still limited to DVCPROHD, though, which works just fine on FW800.

March 21st, 2009, 01:59 PM	#15
Andy Shipsides Sponsor: Abel CineTech Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New York, NY Posts: 361	The Panasonic HPG20 - P2 Portable - would also be a great quality external recording option. Of course it requires an investment in P2 cards but you get 10 bit Full Raster AVC-Intra recording. __________________ Andy Shipsides -Camera Technology Specialist AbelCineTech, New York - Visit our Blog - http://blog.abelcine.com