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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old March 26th, 2009, 12:26 PM   #16
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I have just copied the BPVA folder back and forth between macs an pc, from external hd's to internal hd's without using the CB for over a year now and never had a problem.
As long as you just make a new folder to put the BPVA folder into you'll be fine
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Old March 26th, 2009, 12:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Hoge View Post
I have just copied the BPVA folder back and forth between macs an pc, from external hd's to internal hd's without using the CB for over a year now and never had a problem.
As long as you just make a new folder to put the BPVA folder into you'll be fine
famous last words..... :)


I guess the point is, it's so easy to use the Clip Browser, why take the chance? Plus, the Clip Browser will automatically join clips together that have spanned 2 cards.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 01:01 PM   #18
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He, he, I expected someone to comment my last post.

I often find myself in need to empty the card and don't have time to log the footage. My coleaugue is on a pc and I'm on a mac and we often shoot together and need to share the footage and copying the BPVA folders to external hard disks has worked well for us over the past year. I dont see what is so bad with this workflow?
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Old March 26th, 2009, 01:11 PM   #19
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Just in case you didn't realize it Joachim...

Most people don't use the Clip Browser to log their footage, they just use it to transfer to an external hard drive so they can format the SxS card and keep on shooting. I do my logging in XDCAM Transfer (or maybe someday FCP Log & Capture) In addition, I believe the Clip Browser software is available for both PC and Mac.

So as I see it, you really don't have any reason to not be using the Clip Browser software, and benefit from the adding security of using it. :)

USING CLIP BROWSER
1) Launch Clip Browser
2) From within Clip Browser- drag your clips from the SxS card to your external hard drive
3) From within Clip Browser- erase your clips from the SxS card
4) Go back to shooting

NOT USING CLIP BROWSER
1) Drag clips from SxS card to your external hard drive
2) Put card back into camera
3) Erase your clips using camera
4) Go back to shooting
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Old March 26th, 2009, 01:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joachim Hoge View Post
I dont see what is so bad with this workflow?
It's a great workflow and it will continue to work well for you because it's fast and easy. Until you lose that first really important video clip that your whole shoot is based on. Then you you might not think it's such a great workflow anymore. And it will happen. Eventually. Just like death and taxes. And failed hard drives.

If your work is important to you you'll find the time to copy your BPAV folders properly (with error-checking) on-site, whether it's done by yourself or by a card wrangler that you've trained for just this purpose.

I used to do the same thing you're doing now, which is to drag and drop from the cards to an external FW800 drive connected to my Macbook Pro on-site. And I never lost a clip in over a year of doing it . But I use Clip Browser now. Just to be safe.

- Don
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Old March 26th, 2009, 01:21 PM   #21
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Interesting, Mitchell.
I guess I got into this habit of mine early one due to the first versions of the clip browser.
I use the XDCAM Transfer software for Mac to log my footage after I have made back ups of the BPVA folders.
I just did this with footage shot last year, where the BPVA folders had been copied back and forth at least 4 times before I logged the footage this week with the director.

I will start using the CB I think, but how does it add security?
And does it keep the original BPVA structure?
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Old March 26th, 2009, 01:42 PM   #22
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I would never erase any of my 8gb SxS cards until I've burned a copy of the BPAV folder intact to a dual layer DVD, copied the BPAV folder intact to an external hard drive for archiving only, and then used XDCam Transfer to copy individual scenes to my fw800 external drive or MacPro internal drives for editing. Then I erase my card in the camera. Even after making 3 copies, I still feel unsure about erasing the card. Talk about a case of obsessive compulsive.

The only time I use Clip Browser is when I need to downconvert my 1080 30p files to SD. This has worked just fine for me for over a year now.

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Old March 26th, 2009, 01:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Greening View Post
It's a great workflow and it will continue to work well for you because it's fast and easy. Until you lose that first really important video clip that your whole shoot is based on. Then you you might not think it's such a great workflow anymore. And it will happen. Eventually. Just like death and taxes. And failed hard drives.

If your work is important to you you'll find the time to copy your BPAV folders properly (with error-checking) on-site, whether it's done by yourself or by a card wrangler that you've trained for just this purpose.

I used to do the same thing you're doing now, which is to drag and drop from the cards to an external FW800 drive connected to my Macbook Pro on-site. And I never lost a clip in over a year of doing it . But I use Clip Browser now. Just to be safe.

- Don
Didnīt see your post Don, we must have written at the same time.
Is it so that the CB check the data that is transferred?

Iīll look into the CB right now
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Old March 26th, 2009, 01:47 PM   #24
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I would never erase any of my 8gb SxS cards until I've burned a copy of the BPAV folder intact to a dual layer DVD, copied the BPAV folder intact to an external hard drive for archiving only, and then used XDCam Transfer to copy individual scenes to my fw800 external drive or MacPro internal drives for editing. Then I erase my card in the camera. Even after making 3 copies, I still feel unsure about erasing the card. Talk about a case of obsessive compulsive.

The only time I use Clip Browser is when I need to downconvert my 1080 30p files to SD. This has worked just fine for me for over a year now.

Mike Sims
I copy the BPVA folder to my MBP and an external HD in the field if I have to off load on location, then I copy them to a HD at our editing suite.
So I keep 3 copies, but I have to say I hate formatting the SxS cards, itīs nerve racking everytime
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Old March 26th, 2009, 03:40 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Greening View Post
If your work is important to you you'll find the time to copy your BPAV folders properly (with error-checking) on-site,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchell Lewis
I guess the point is, it's so easy to use the Clip Browser, why take the chance?
But that was the whole point of my initial question, guys--it is NOT easy if you work in Mac and don't have an Intel laptop, since a non-Intel can't use CB and there's no fail-safe way of shuttling drives between a pc and a mac. If there really is no technical rationale to do it--and the Sony manual talks specifically about "individual clips"--then not using CB saves me 3 grand. My Power PC Mac Book Pro works just fine copying entire BPAV folders to mac-formatted drives. I suppose I could just buy the cheapest MacBook, but then it won't have express34 and won't be useable for editing HD.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 03:54 PM   #26
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Hi Mike
Sorry for side tracking.
I had a very important shoot in October and my only laptop was my wifeīs iBook.
As I hadnīt read all the scare stories about copying BPVA folders back then, I used the iBook and copied the BPVA folders to 2 externals hard drives.
This worked fine, but it was a slow process. I went back to all the folders/clips with the director this week and everything worked flawlessly. I used the XDCAM Transfer tool now to log the clips.

It worked, and I would have recommended this workflow up until today, but reading the posts and warnings here Iīm not sure I can.
It worked for me itīs all I can say.

I used to have a 24" iMac, but sold it to get an Intel MacBook Pro. My main reason was to get the Express card slot to speed things up.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 04:03 PM   #27
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I agree, Joachim, if it's necessary, but would love to have either a computer geek or a Sony rep say definitively that CB is safer when copying the entire bpav folder. I know many EX'ers have been adamant about using CB, but not sure if that's when copying clips vs. copying the whole folder.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 04:36 PM   #28
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Me too.
I think in general people have been talking about the CB when they are dealing with individual clips, but who knows.
The BPVA folder contains data, and copied as a whole, I donīt understand how the clips can be "damaged"
Iīm not saying they canīt, but I would like for someone to explain it properly.
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Old March 26th, 2009, 07:42 PM   #29
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I can't explain "why" you should use the Clip Browser. Only that in the Sony instruction manual it says in big bold RED letters to never transfer clips using the operating system, to only use the Clip Browser software to transfer clips off the SxS cards. Personally, that's enough of an explanation for me. :)
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Old March 26th, 2009, 07:53 PM   #30
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That's what I thought, too, Mitchell, but what it says is this:

"To archive media from an SxS card to hard disc or other media, the Sony XDCAM EX ClipBrowser application must be used. Copying individual clips via the Macintosh Finder will result in unusable media on the target drive."

Guess I'll just have to take Craig's word for it.
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