How to use PC field drives for Mac Edit System

Joachim Hoge · March 26th, 2009, 11:26 AM

I have just copied the BPVA folder back and forth between macs an pc, from external hd's to internal hd's without using the CB for over a year now and never had a problem.
As long as you just make a new folder to put the BPVA folder into you'll be fine

Mitchell Lewis · March 26th, 2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joachim Hoge

I have just copied the BPVA folder back and forth between macs an pc, from external hd's to internal hd's without using the CB for over a year now and never had a problem.
As long as you just make a new folder to put the BPVA folder into you'll be fine

famous last words..... :)

I guess the point is, it's so easy to use the Clip Browser, why take the chance? Plus, the Clip Browser will automatically join clips together that have spanned 2 cards.

Joachim Hoge · March 26th, 2009, 12:01 PM

He, he, I expected someone to comment my last post.

I often find myself in need to empty the card and don't have time to log the footage. My coleaugue is on a pc and I'm on a mac and we often shoot together and need to share the footage and copying the BPVA folders to external hard disks has worked well for us over the past year. I dont see what is so bad with this workflow?

Mitchell Lewis · March 26th, 2009, 12:11 PM

Just in case you didn't realize it Joachim...

Most people don't use the Clip Browser to log their footage, they just use it to transfer to an external hard drive so they can format the SxS card and keep on shooting. I do my logging in XDCAM Transfer (or maybe someday FCP Log & Capture) In addition, I believe the Clip Browser software is available for both PC and Mac.

So as I see it, you really don't have any reason to not be using the Clip Browser software, and benefit from the adding security of using it. :)

USING CLIP BROWSER
1) Launch Clip Browser
2) From within Clip Browser- drag your clips from the SxS card to your external hard drive
3) From within Clip Browser- erase your clips from the SxS card
4) Go back to shooting

NOT USING CLIP BROWSER
1) Drag clips from SxS card to your external hard drive
2) Put card back into camera
3) Erase your clips using camera
4) Go back to shooting

Don Greening · March 26th, 2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joachim Hoge

I dont see what is so bad with this workflow?

It's a great workflow and it will continue to work well for you because it's fast and easy. Until you lose that first really important video clip that your whole shoot is based on. Then you you might not think it's such a great workflow anymore. And it will happen. Eventually. Just like death and taxes. And failed hard drives.

If your work is important to you you'll find the time to copy your BPAV folders properly (with error-checking) on-site, whether it's done by yourself or by a card wrangler that you've trained for just this purpose.

I used to do the same thing you're doing now, which is to drag and drop from the cards to an external FW800 drive connected to my Macbook Pro on-site. And I never lost a clip in over a year of doing it . But I use Clip Browser now. Just to be safe.

- Don

Joachim Hoge · March 26th, 2009, 12:21 PM

Interesting, Mitchell.
I guess I got into this habit of mine early one due to the first versions of the clip browser.
I use the XDCAM Transfer software for Mac to log my footage after I have made back ups of the BPVA folders.
I just did this with footage shot last year, where the BPVA folders had been copied back and forth at least 4 times before I logged the footage this week with the director.

I will start using the CB I think, but how does it add security?
And does it keep the original BPVA structure?

Michael Sims · March 26th, 2009, 12:42 PM

I would never erase any of my 8gb SxS cards until I've burned a copy of the BPAV folder intact to a dual layer DVD, copied the BPAV folder intact to an external hard drive for archiving only, and then used XDCam Transfer to copy individual scenes to my fw800 external drive or MacPro internal drives for editing. Then I erase my card in the camera. Even after making 3 copies, I still feel unsure about erasing the card. Talk about a case of obsessive compulsive.

The only time I use Clip Browser is when I need to downconvert my 1080 30p files to SD. This has worked just fine for me for over a year now.

Mike Sims

Joachim Hoge · March 26th, 2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Greening

It's a great workflow and it will continue to work well for you because it's fast and easy. Until you lose that first really important video clip that your whole shoot is based on. Then you you might not think it's such a great workflow anymore. And it will happen. Eventually. Just like death and taxes. And failed hard drives.

If your work is important to you you'll find the time to copy your BPAV folders properly (with error-checking) on-site, whether it's done by yourself or by a card wrangler that you've trained for just this purpose.

I used to do the same thing you're doing now, which is to drag and drop from the cards to an external FW800 drive connected to my Macbook Pro on-site. And I never lost a clip in over a year of doing it . But I use Clip Browser now. Just to be safe.

- Don

Didn´t see your post Don, we must have written at the same time.
Is it so that the CB check the data that is transferred?

I´ll look into the CB right now

Joachim Hoge · March 26th, 2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Sims

I would never erase any of my 8gb SxS cards until I've burned a copy of the BPAV folder intact to a dual layer DVD, copied the BPAV folder intact to an external hard drive for archiving only, and then used XDCam Transfer to copy individual scenes to my fw800 external drive or MacPro internal drives for editing. Then I erase my card in the camera. Even after making 3 copies, I still feel unsure about erasing the card. Talk about a case of obsessive compulsive.

The only time I use Clip Browser is when I need to downconvert my 1080 30p files to SD. This has worked just fine for me for over a year now.

Mike Sims

I copy the BPVA folder to my MBP and an external HD in the field if I have to off load on location, then I copy them to a HD at our editing suite.
So I keep 3 copies, but I have to say I hate formatting the SxS cards, it´s nerve racking everytime

Mike Chandler · March 26th, 2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Greening

If your work is important to you you'll find the time to copy your BPAV folders properly (with error-checking) on-site,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchell Lewis

I guess the point is, it's so easy to use the Clip Browser, why take the chance?

But that was the whole point of my initial question, guys--it is NOT easy if you work in Mac and don't have an Intel laptop, since a non-Intel can't use CB and there's no fail-safe way of shuttling drives between a pc and a mac. If there really is no technical rationale to do it--and the Sony manual talks specifically about "individual clips"--then not using CB saves me 3 grand. My Power PC Mac Book Pro works just fine copying entire BPAV folders to mac-formatted drives. I suppose I could just buy the cheapest MacBook, but then it won't have express34 and won't be useable for editing HD.

Joachim Hoge · March 26th, 2009, 02:54 PM

Hi Mike
Sorry for side tracking.
I had a very important shoot in October and my only laptop was my wife´s iBook.
As I hadn´t read all the scare stories about copying BPVA folders back then, I used the iBook and copied the BPVA folders to 2 externals hard drives.
This worked fine, but it was a slow process. I went back to all the folders/clips with the director this week and everything worked flawlessly. I used the XDCAM Transfer tool now to log the clips.

It worked, and I would have recommended this workflow up until today, but reading the posts and warnings here I´m not sure I can.
It worked for me it´s all I can say.

I used to have a 24" iMac, but sold it to get an Intel MacBook Pro. My main reason was to get the Express card slot to speed things up.

Mike Chandler · March 26th, 2009, 03:03 PM

I agree, Joachim, if it's necessary, but would love to have either a computer geek or a Sony rep say definitively that CB is safer when copying the entire bpav folder. I know many EX'ers have been adamant about using CB, but not sure if that's when copying clips vs. copying the whole folder.

Joachim Hoge · March 26th, 2009, 03:36 PM

Me too.
I think in general people have been talking about the CB when they are dealing with individual clips, but who knows.
The BPVA folder contains data, and copied as a whole, I don´t understand how the clips can be "damaged"
I´m not saying they can´t, but I would like for someone to explain it properly.

Mitchell Lewis · March 26th, 2009, 06:42 PM

I can't explain "why" you should use the Clip Browser. Only that in the Sony instruction manual it says in big bold RED letters to never transfer clips using the operating system, to only use the Clip Browser software to transfer clips off the SxS cards. Personally, that's enough of an explanation for me. :)

Mike Chandler · March 26th, 2009, 06:53 PM

That's what I thought, too, Mitchell, but what it says is this:

"To archive media from an SxS card to hard disc or other media, the Sony XDCAM EX ClipBrowser application must be used. Copying individual clips via the Macintosh Finder will result in unusable media on the target drive."

Guess I'll just have to take Craig's word for it.

March 26th, 2009, 12:11 PM	#19
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	Just in case you didn't realize it Joachim... Most people don't use the Clip Browser to log their footage, they just use it to transfer to an external hard drive so they can format the SxS card and keep on shooting. I do my logging in XDCAM Transfer (or maybe someday FCP Log & Capture) In addition, I believe the Clip Browser software is available for both PC and Mac. So as I see it, you really don't have any reason to not be using the Clip Browser software, and benefit from the adding security of using it. :) USING CLIP BROWSER 1) Launch Clip Browser 2) From within Clip Browser- drag your clips from the SxS card to your external hard drive 3) From within Clip Browser- erase your clips from the SxS card 4) Go back to shooting NOT USING CLIP BROWSER 1) Drag clips from SxS card to your external hard drive 2) Put card back into camera 3) Erase your clips using camera 4) Go back to shooting __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 26th, 2009, 03:03 PM	#27
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	I agree, Joachim, if it's necessary, but would love to have either a computer geek or a Sony rep say definitively that CB is safer when copying the entire bpav folder. I know many EX'ers have been adamant about using CB, but not sure if that's when copying clips vs. copying the whole folder. __________________ www.packcreekproductions.com EX3, Mac Pro, FCP

March 26th, 2009, 06:42 PM	#29
Mitchell Lewis Trustee Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kennewick, WA Posts: 1,124	I can't explain "why" you should use the Clip Browser. Only that in the Sony instruction manual it says in big bold RED letters to never transfer clips using the operating system, to only use the Clip Browser software to transfer clips off the SxS cards. Personally, that's enough of an explanation for me. :) __________________ Sony EX3, Canon 5D MkII, Chrosziel Matte Box, Sachtler tripod, Steadicam Flyer, Mac Pro, Apple/Adobe software - 20 years as a local videographer/editor

March 26th, 2009, 06:53 PM	#30
Mike Chandler Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Moab, UT Posts: 264	That's what I thought, too, Mitchell, but what it says is this: "To archive media from an SxS card to hard disc or other media, the Sony XDCAM EX ClipBrowser application must be used. Copying individual clips via the Macintosh Finder will result in unusable media on the target drive." Guess I'll just have to take Craig's word for it. __________________ www.packcreekproductions.com EX3, Mac Pro, FCP

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March 26th, 2009, 11:26 AM	#16
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	I have just copied the BPVA folder back and forth between macs an pc, from external hd's to internal hd's without using the CB for over a year now and never had a problem. As long as you just make a new folder to put the BPVA folder into you'll be fine

March 26th, 2009, 12:01 PM	#18
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	He, he, I expected someone to comment my last post. I often find myself in need to empty the card and don't have time to log the footage. My coleaugue is on a pc and I'm on a mac and we often shoot together and need to share the footage and copying the BPVA folders to external hard disks has worked well for us over the past year. I dont see what is so bad with this workflow?

March 26th, 2009, 12:21 PM	#21
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	Interesting, Mitchell. I guess I got into this habit of mine early one due to the first versions of the clip browser. I use the XDCAM Transfer software for Mac to log my footage after I have made back ups of the BPVA folders. I just did this with footage shot last year, where the BPVA folders had been copied back and forth at least 4 times before I logged the footage this week with the director. I will start using the CB I think, but how does it add security? And does it keep the original BPVA structure?

March 26th, 2009, 12:42 PM	#22
Michael Sims Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Palm Harbor, Florida Posts: 102	I would never erase any of my 8gb SxS cards until I've burned a copy of the BPAV folder intact to a dual layer DVD, copied the BPAV folder intact to an external hard drive for archiving only, and then used XDCam Transfer to copy individual scenes to my fw800 external drive or MacPro internal drives for editing. Then I erase my card in the camera. Even after making 3 copies, I still feel unsure about erasing the card. Talk about a case of obsessive compulsive. The only time I use Clip Browser is when I need to downconvert my 1080 30p files to SD. This has worked just fine for me for over a year now. Mike Sims

March 26th, 2009, 02:54 PM	#26
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	Hi Mike Sorry for side tracking. I had a very important shoot in October and my only laptop was my wife´s iBook. As I hadn´t read all the scare stories about copying BPVA folders back then, I used the iBook and copied the BPVA folders to 2 externals hard drives. This worked fine, but it was a slow process. I went back to all the folders/clips with the director this week and everything worked flawlessly. I used the XDCAM Transfer tool now to log the clips. It worked, and I would have recommended this workflow up until today, but reading the posts and warnings here I´m not sure I can. It worked for me it´s all I can say. I used to have a 24" iMac, but sold it to get an Intel MacBook Pro. My main reason was to get the Express card slot to speed things up.

March 26th, 2009, 03:36 PM	#28
Joachim Hoge Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 402	Me too. I think in general people have been talking about the CB when they are dealing with individual clips, but who knows. The BPVA folder contains data, and copied as a whole, I don´t understand how the clips can be "damaged" I´m not saying they can´t, but I would like for someone to explain it properly.