Need help: will the EX3 and F350 have the same file type at DVinfo.net

William Griffin · March 21st, 2009, 04:01 PM

hello all..

I am doing a shoot this summer and I will be using my EX3 as a b-roll camera as the main cameras will be the clients F350's (interviews,live shots) and we will be doing on location editing on Sony Vegas off a laptop..One strange thing is that the F350's will be shooting to 16x9, but in SD...I know that the EX3 will only do HD, so the questions is:

If I hand the editor one of my EX3 SXS cards, will they be the same files as the F350 puts out and can he edit to the program or will need to change settings?

I am not a editor, so I need your help.

thanks....

Olof Ekbergh · March 22nd, 2009, 07:14 AM

The EX3 files are HD and different from Standard XDcam.
They can be easily converted using clip browser, see attached screen shot.

William Griffin · March 22nd, 2009, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh

The EX3 files are HD and different from Standard XDcam.
They can be easily converted using clip browser, see attached screen shot.

Exported to what? which of these do I use as I am not a editor and this is all new to me.

thanks

Craig Seeman · March 22nd, 2009, 10:20 AM

XDCAM EX is 1920x1080 35mbps VBR 4:2:0 (assuming shooting 1080).

I'm not sure why you'd shoot SD with the 350.
If you shot HD it would be 1440x1080 35mbps VBR 4:2:0

William Griffin · March 22nd, 2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Seeman

XDCAM EX is 1920x1080 35mbps VBR 4:2:0 (assuming shooting 1080).

I'm not sure why you'd shoot SD with the 350.
If you shot HD it would be 1440x1080 35mbps VBR 4:2:0

Its the clients call, not mine....it also has something to do with the sat truck, not being HD cable.
thx...

Denis OKeefe · March 22nd, 2009, 12:43 PM

Look like a hero to your client - convince them to shoot HD then have the editor post in SD for the sat truck. It doesn't cost anymore, looks way better and future protects the future for a time when SD will no longer be acceptable.
On the other hand not everyone is as forward thinking as us, I swear I've had clients demand Beta tapes because their library shelves were that size.
If you do mix you might consider shooting the EX in SQ mode (not the HQ 1920x1080). That way the frame sizes between the 350 and the EX match. If the 350 is shooting SD this is a moot point, you might as well shoot the best possible quality on the EX3 and convert to standard def in the edit.

Olof Ekbergh · March 22nd, 2009, 01:05 PM

Are you just handing off to a satellite truck for upload in the field (no editing onboard)?

If so ask the truck operator what codec he would like. This is one situation where SD tape is actually better. Unless the truck could set up to accept SxS or SD media and do the conversions in the truck.

It takes a while to do the transcoding to a SD codec, it is not the 6X or better copy in Express 34 slot.

Greg Boston · March 22nd, 2009, 01:45 PM

Although the EX series can't shoot natively in SD mode, I believe they can still downconvert to DVCAM through firewire on playback. Maybe even real time downconvert to SD.

Just a thought,

-gb-

Craig Seeman · March 22nd, 2009, 02:44 PM

Real time downconvert from SDI to Standard Def either 16x9 anamorphic or center crop.
Not sure about firewire (yet).

William Griffin · March 22nd, 2009, 07:33 PM

We will edit on the laptop..then transfer the edited package back to the F350, then take the camera up to the sat truck to feed out....so when I hand the editor my video I want him able to edit right on the spot...so it sounds like I shoot it HD, use the clip browser program to convert the HD to a MFX XDCAM DVCAM files and dump it all on a 8 GB flash drive or 160 GB hard drive to had off...does this sound right to you all?

I did this type of thing last year with them...OK..its Comcast Sports out of Washington DC....
but last time I shot with my V1u and we dumped it all on to a break out box...that was hooked up to the laptop...and it worked but was slow.

thanks

Denis OKeefe · March 23rd, 2009, 11:16 AM

If the truck has an SDI board you can shoot HD on both cameras, dump it back to the 350 after editing (keeping it HD) then feed it as anamorphic SD or edge cropped SD.
I've fed from the EX3 this way and it looks great, hard to tell the difference from HD at times.
The truck just needs the SDI capability, not the HD encoders.

Alister Chapman · March 23rd, 2009, 04:02 PM

Set both the EX and F350 to shoot HD using the SP mode. That way both cameras will shoot 1440x1080i at the same bit rate (25Mbps) with the same colour space. Depending on the edit application you may need to use the sony clip browser to convert the EX files to "MXF for NLE" but more and more edit applications will support both MXF and the EX MP4's without this step. Then edit using a project set to match the F350 (or even HDV as this is what you will in effect be using). Then export the finished cut back to the F350 as 1440x1080 25Mbps CBR XDCAM HD and play out from the camera using the built in SD downconverter to give an SD output.

This should be a fast an efficient workflow as all the footage will be 1440x1080 25Mbps CBR XDCAM. There will be no need to transcode anything and the only things that would need rendering would be any captions or effects.

William Griffin · March 25th, 2009, 03:23 PM

Ok guys..many thanks for all the feedback.....cheers...

March 21st, 2009, 04:01 PM	#1
William Griffin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 204	Need help: will the EX3 and F350 have the same file type hello all.. I am doing a shoot this summer and I will be using my EX3 as a b-roll camera as the main cameras will be the clients F350's (interviews,live shots) and we will be doing on location editing on Sony Vegas off a laptop..One strange thing is that the F350's will be shooting to 16x9, but in SD...I know that the EX3 will only do HD, so the questions is: If I hand the editor one of my EX3 SXS cards, will they be the same files as the F350 puts out and can he edit to the program or will need to change settings? I am not a editor, so I need your help. thanks.... __________________ Bill Griffin SONY PXW-X320,PMW-300K2, LiveU LU-500,Sound Devices 552 Mixer,www.Dallascamguy.com

March 22nd, 2009, 07:14 AM	#2
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	The EX3 files are HD and different from Standard XDcam. They can be easily converted using clip browser, see attached screen shot. Attached Thumbnails

March 22nd, 2009, 12:43 PM	#6
Denis OKeefe Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wayne, PA Posts: 207	EX3 and 350 Look like a hero to your client - convince them to shoot HD then have the editor post in SD for the sat truck. It doesn't cost anymore, looks way better and future protects the future for a time when SD will no longer be acceptable. On the other hand not everyone is as forward thinking as us, I swear I've had clients demand Beta tapes because their library shelves were that size. If you do mix you might consider shooting the EX in SQ mode (not the HQ 1920x1080). That way the frame sizes between the 350 and the EX match. If the 350 is shooting SD this is a moot point, you might as well shoot the best possible quality on the EX3 and convert to standard def in the edit.

March 22nd, 2009, 07:33 PM	#10
William Griffin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 204	We will edit on the laptop..then transfer the edited package back to the F350, then take the camera up to the sat truck to feed out....so when I hand the editor my video I want him able to edit right on the spot...so it sounds like I shoot it HD, use the clip browser program to convert the HD to a MFX XDCAM DVCAM files and dump it all on a 8 GB flash drive or 160 GB hard drive to had off...does this sound right to you all? I did this type of thing last year with them...OK..its Comcast Sports out of Washington DC.... but last time I shot with my V1u and we dumped it all on to a break out box...that was hooked up to the laptop...and it worked but was slow. thanks __________________ Bill Griffin SONY PXW-X320,PMW-300K2, LiveU LU-500,Sound Devices 552 Mixer,www.Dallascamguy.com

March 23rd, 2009, 11:16 AM	#11
Denis OKeefe Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wayne, PA Posts: 207	Can the truck take SDI? If the truck has an SDI board you can shoot HD on both cameras, dump it back to the 350 after editing (keeping it HD) then feed it as anamorphic SD or edge cropped SD. I've fed from the EX3 this way and it looks great, hard to tell the difference from HD at times. The truck just needs the SDI capability, not the HD encoders.

March 22nd, 2009, 10:20 AM	#4
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	XDCAM EX is 1920x1080 35mbps VBR 4:2:0 (assuming shooting 1080). I'm not sure why you'd shoot SD with the 350. If you shot HD it would be 1440x1080 35mbps VBR 4:2:0

March 22nd, 2009, 01:05 PM	#7
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	Are you just handing off to a satellite truck for upload in the field (no editing onboard)? If so ask the truck operator what codec he would like. This is one situation where SD tape is actually better. Unless the truck could set up to accept SxS or SD media and do the conversions in the truck. It takes a while to do the transcoding to a SD codec, it is not the 6X or better copy in Express 34 slot.

March 22nd, 2009, 01:45 PM	#8
Greg Boston Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: DFW area, TX Posts: 6,117 Images: 1	Although the EX series can't shoot natively in SD mode, I believe they can still downconvert to DVCAM through firewire on playback. Maybe even real time downconvert to SD. Just a thought, -gb-

March 22nd, 2009, 02:44 PM	#9
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Real time downconvert from SDI to Standard Def either 16x9 anamorphic or center crop. Not sure about firewire (yet).

March 23rd, 2009, 04:02 PM	#12
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Set both the EX and F350 to shoot HD using the SP mode. That way both cameras will shoot 1440x1080i at the same bit rate (25Mbps) with the same colour space. Depending on the edit application you may need to use the sony clip browser to convert the EX files to "MXF for NLE" but more and more edit applications will support both MXF and the EX MP4's without this step. Then edit using a project set to match the F350 (or even HDV as this is what you will in effect be using). Then export the finished cut back to the F350 as 1440x1080 25Mbps CBR XDCAM HD and play out from the camera using the built in SD downconverter to give an SD output. This should be a fast an efficient workflow as all the footage will be 1440x1080 25Mbps CBR XDCAM. There will be no need to transcode anything and the only things that would need rendering would be any captions or effects. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

March 25th, 2009, 03:23 PM	#13
William Griffin Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 204	Ok guys..many thanks for all the feedback.....cheers... __________________ Bill Griffin SONY PXW-X320,PMW-300K2, LiveU LU-500,Sound Devices 552 Mixer,www.Dallascamguy.com