need help: Ex and shooting PAL - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old June 4th, 2009, 03:59 AM   #16
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Griffin View Post
I know what PAL is and the settings...as I am a little lost on all of your post.
Sorry Bill, I just offered more technical details and even tested it ...
and did not know you are professional cameraman.
Tuy Le is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2009, 09:26 AM   #17
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 194
Thanks to all...as my questions have been answered................
William Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2009, 04:30 PM   #18
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Griffin View Post
I know it records in HD only...that is what the client wants....
That is NOT what you first posted. You asked about PAL recordings. PAL (and NTSC) are standard def formats. There isn't and PAL & NTSC in HD. So when you posted asking about PAL recording, that means SD.

Anyway, I was only trying to help you and I found your reply to be very abrupt. As long as you have been informed and understand the diffeences now, that is all that matters.
Best wishes
__________________
David Issko
Edit 1 Video Productions
David Issko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2009, 06:08 PM   #19
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Issko View Post
That is NOT what you first posted. You asked about PAL recordings. PAL (and NTSC) are standard def formats. There isn't and PAL & NTSC in HD. So when you posted asking about PAL recording, that means SD.

Anyway, I was only trying to help you and I found your reply to be very abrupt. As long as you have been informed and understand the diffeences now, that is all that matters.
Best wishes
YES it was....we all now live in a HD world.....everbody knows that the EX3 is a HD only camera....all the client wanted to know if it does "pal".....and on SDHC cards....if I wanted to get info on SD, I would have asked for it. and all that matters is some people on here gave me the right answers.
William Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2009, 11:49 PM   #20
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Griffin View Post
YES it was....we all now live in a HD world.....everbody knows that the EX3 is a HD only camera....all the client wanted to know if it does "pal".....and on SDHC cards....if I wanted to get info on SD, I would have asked for it. and all that matters is some people on here gave me the right answers.
It does not record PAL on any card. It records different HD rates, but NOT PAL. I have an EX3 and have had one for many months now. Please advise me where I can record in PAL format video as mine does not record in PAL.

I can set it to record in PAL area or NTSC area but that is only related to the scanning rate, not the colour format.

So, I reiterate, the camera does NOT record in PAL nor does it record in NTSC as HD does not have PAL or NTSC in its technical makeup. The EX3 CANNOT output PAL to the SDHC card.

Besides, you DID ask for SD by asking if it records in PAL. Re-read your own post!
__________________
David Issko
Edit 1 Video Productions
David Issko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 4th, 2009, 11:58 PM   #21
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 194
No, your are wrong and so your telling me and the others on here that Sony Corp is lying to us all about what the camera can do....as when I spoke to Sony before I got the camera an asked them about PAL recording and they said "yes"....so take it up with them.

I asked the questions and they have been answered...the issue is CLOSED.
William Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2009, 04:47 PM   #22
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Griffin View Post
No, your are wrong and so your telling me and the others on here that Sony Corp is lying to us all about what the camera can do....as when I spoke to Sony before I got the camera an asked them about PAL recording and they said "yes"....so take it up with them.

I asked the questions and they have been answered...the issue is CLOSED.
OK, enjoy recording in PAL on your unique EX3.
__________________
David Issko
Edit 1 Video Productions
David Issko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2009, 04:56 PM   #23
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 194
I will as I spoke to Sony this morning, they have no idea what your talking about.
William Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2009, 05:00 PM   #24
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Griffin View Post
I will as I spoke to Sony this morning, they have no idea what your talking about.
Well then, all of my projects, including TV are all wrong it seems. Oh well, to the back of the line for me. Enjoy your PAL recordings, while I and my clients enjoy 1080 recordings.
__________________
David Issko
Edit 1 Video Productions
David Issko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2009, 05:19 PM   #25
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Issko View Post
Well then, all of my projects, including TV are all wrong it seems. Oh well, to the back of the line for me. Enjoy your PAL recordings, while I and my clients enjoy 1080 recordings.
If have a problem with this...call Sony Corp. in New Jersey 800-883-6817, push 2, then 5 then 2 again and talk to a broadcast service rep..... as he told me look at the manual of the camera, at pages 49-50....it tells it all. Sony only builds one camera type (EX3) at their plant in China, no matter if you live in New York City, or London or Paris.....where ever...you will get the same camera.
William Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2009, 05:29 PM   #26
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Griffin View Post
.......when I spoke to Sony before I got the camera an asked them about PAL recording and they said "yes"....so take it up with them.
I can do little better than refer to wikipedia about this whole subject - PAL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PAL is an acronym for "Phase Alternating Line" and refers to how the colour information is encoded within an analogue colour television system. Practically, all the systems it's been associated with have been standard definition, including trials with the old UK 405 line! As wikipedia says:
Quote:
The term PAL is often used informally to refer to a 625-line/50 Hz (576i), television system, and to differentiate from a 525-line/60 Hz (480i) NTSC system. Accordingly, DVDs are labelled as either PAL or NTSC (referring informally to the line count and frame rate) even though technically the discs do not have either PAL or NTSC composite colour
In fact, even that is a clumsy approximation. In a very few countries (most especially Brazil), PAL colour coding is used with the 525-line/60 Hz line standard (as used with NTSC) to form the PAL-M standard.

Hence, even using "PAL" to mean "50Hz based standards" is incorrect (especially in Brazil!), and "PAL" DVDs could just as correctly be referred to as SECAM DVDs. The correct terminology there is really 576i/25 - it's only when the signal becomes analogue that it takes a "PAL" or "SECAM" form. But that's probably a losing battle.

Move to HD, and the terms PAL and NTSC have no relevance at all, as all analogue HD standards are component only, though they (wrongly) sometimes get used to imply 50Hz or 60Hz based standards.

Does it matter? I think the preceding comments probably prove it does, the use of misleading terminology causing confusion. The original question asked was "Can the EX3 output PAL to the SDHC card?" and I was not the only one to take that to mean "Can the EX3 output 576i/25 to the SDHC card?"

Phrased "Can the EX3 output 50Hz based standards to the SDHC card?" it would have been unambiguous.
David Heath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2009, 05:58 PM   #27
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by William Griffin View Post
If have a problem with this...call Sony Corp. ........he told me look at the manual of the camera, ....it tells it all.
As a direct quote from the manual:
Quote:
The selectable formats depend on whether "Country" of the OTHERS menu is set to "NTSC area" or "PAL Area".
In other words they are distinguishing between PAL and NTSC areas of the world - it may have been better if they'd said "60Hz area" or "50Hz Area" - they are NOT saying that the camera will record "PAL".

The EX cameras will record 1080p/25, 1080i/25 and 720p/50 in "PAL areas" - they will not record 576i/25......... and that is what is generally referred to as "PAL".
David Heath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2009, 06:01 PM   #28
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Heath View Post
I can do little better than refer to wikipedia about this whole subject - PAL - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

PAL is an acronym for "Phase Alternating Line" and refers to how the colour information is encoded within an analogue colour television system. Practically, all the systems it's been associated with have been standard definition, including trials with the old UK 405 line! As wikipedia says:

In fact, even that is a clumsy approximation. In a very few countries (most especially Brazil), PAL colour coding is used with the 525-line/60 Hz line standard (as used with NTSC) to form the PAL-M standard.

Hence, even using "PAL" to mean "50Hz based standards" is incorrect (especially in Brazil!), and "PAL" DVDs could just as correctly be referred to as SECAM DVDs. The correct terminology there is really 576i/25 - it's only when the signal becomes analogue that it takes a "PAL" or "SECAM" form. But that's probably a losing battle.

Move to HD, and the terms PAL and NTSC have no relevance at all, as all analogue HD standards are component only, though they (wrongly) sometimes get used to imply 50Hz or 60Hz based standards.

Does it matter? I think the preceding comments probably prove it does, the use of misleading terminology causing confusion. The original question asked was "Can the EX3 output PAL to the SDHC card?" and I was not the only one to take that to mean "Can the EX3 output 576i/25 to the SDHC card?"

Phrased "Can the EX3 output 50Hz based standards to the SDHC card?" it would have been unambiguous.

I think you have something with your comments...

I have worked in the TV business for 25 years being employed at 4 TV stations and have worked for all the major US TV networks as a freelance cameraman.

And in my TV world here in Texas...NTSC means "US standard TV"....and PAL, means anything that is European 220v TV standard...its the way we use terms over here, as when ever a European client calls me (BBC,ProSeiben, Sat 1 Berlin and others)... they always ask me " can you shoot PAL".... and I always said if you bring a PAL camera with you or rent one out of New York at PAL EAST...as we have no PAL cameras in Texas.

So its just a hold over from the good old days of broadcast TV when we had to have 2 types of cameras.....and now HD will changed all of that, as HDTV is still new to a lot of us here in the US.

But come next week, June 12...its a new world , as we make the big switch to HD broadcast.
William Griffin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2009, 06:24 PM   #29
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Wayne, PA
Posts: 207
Jeez - lighten up a bit

you asked a question - well meaning and informed people answered it well, and quickly. We are all in flux, the only standard is that nothing is really standard. NTSC and PAL are not any flavor of HD and should both die off quickly (but they won't).
Electricity here is 60 hertz. We shoot 30 or 60. Electricity there is 50 hertz, they shoot 25 or 50. Effete folks shoot 24p because that's what film is (lousy TV but if they want to pay who am I to argue? - and please, apologies to all under or overcranking, I know you know what you are doing and it may look great).
Shoot 50 I or P (whatever they want) and it will work. Try 50 P or 50i in Texas and you will be unemployed.
How hard is this?
What folks are trying to warn you about is "crossing the beams" Don't use your HMI or shoot under fluorescents flickering in sync with our video but not their's. We share the same sun, that shouldn't cause trouble and tungsten doesn't flicker much. Set the camera to 50 something, if it looks okay you are fine, if it flickers something has to change and it can't be the format setting.
Denis OKeefe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 5th, 2009, 10:18 PM   #30
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denis OKeefe View Post
you asked a question - well meaning and informed people answered it well, and quickly. We are all in flux, the only standard is that nothing is really standard. NTSC and PAL are not any flavor of HD and should both die off quickly (but they won't).
Electricity here is 60 hertz. We shoot 30 or 60. Electricity there is 50 hertz, they shoot 25 or 50. Effete folks shoot 24p because that's what film is (lousy TV but if they want to pay who am I to argue? - and please, apologies to all under or overcranking, I know you know what you are doing and it may look great).
Shoot 50 I or P (whatever they want) and it will work. Try 50 P or 50i in Texas and you will be unemployed.
How hard is this?
What folks are trying to warn you about is "crossing the beams" Don't use your HMI or shoot under fluorescents flickering in sync with our video but not their's. We share the same sun, that shouldn't cause trouble and tungsten doesn't flicker much. Set the camera to 50 something, if it looks okay you are fine, if it flickers something has to change and it can't be the format setting.
yes I know this...I have shot many times for the BBC out of New York... this whole post has me asking.... what the heck is going on out there.....
William Griffin is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:56 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network