clip information at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 2nd, 2009, 07:12 PM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 421
clip information

where to find detailed clip info - like shutter speed, gain setting etc.
Marius Boruch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2009, 07:41 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: melb.vic.au
Posts: 447
Not 100% sure, but I don't think the EX does this. If you open an MXF in XDCAM Viewer and check metadata, it's not there...
__________________
www.davidwilliams.com.au
David C. Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2009, 07:51 PM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 421
no, the important data is not there only useless time code; unbelievable!
Marius Boruch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2009, 05:53 PM   #4
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 2,484
According to the EX engineers who I met with in Japan, the metadata information is already being saved. You just can't read it yet. Perhaps that will be changing soon . . .
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:02 PM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marius Boruch View Post
no, the important data is not there only useless time code; unbelievable!
Name me any camera under US$10k where you can do this currently. How about under $20k (other than a RED). Under $30k?

I'm not quite sure what makes it so unbelievable. This was IMPOSSIBLE on tape, and it's still why camera logs are written down for film.

If the data is being saved, then good on Sony. But dang people, get your expectations in line. The EX1 is not a Viper, and it's not a Genesis or Dalsa either.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:06 PM   #6
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 2,484
Perrone,

I undersand what you are saying. A lot of people have unrealistic expectations about all kinds of things they expect cameras to do. But just look at all the metadata that even the cheapest $600 D-SLR provides. There's no reason an $8000 EX3 shouldn't be providing that same level of detail. It's just a bunch of ones and zeros.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:10 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 421
and here is surprise for you .... the same company - Sony did it on their HDR-XR500V $900 model. I can see gain, shutter, whithe balance setting...
so I'd expect the same from $6K+ camera; it is not a rocket science
btw-
I have this camera (HDR-XR500V ) and it is BETTER low light thank Z5U and Z7U due to new ExmorR sensor - just amazing what just one year in technology can do ;-)
see it here Sony HDR-XR500V low light test By Marius Boruch On ExposureRoom
all shots hand held
Marius Boruch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:16 PM   #8
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
Perrone,

I undersand what you are saying. A lot of people have unrealistic expectations about all kinds of things they expect cameras to do. But just look at all the metadata that even the cheapest $600 D-SLR provides. There's no reason an $8000 EX3 shouldn't be providing that same level of detail. It's just a bunch of ones and zeros.
Doug,

I know, but DANG. People have been making film for 100 years without it. That is why you hired a Camera Asst. DSLRs do stuff $8k viddeo cams can't. And video cams do stuff DSLRs cant. I used to hear the complaints when I was shooting film (still) from the new DSLR guys. Why the motor drive was ONLY 3.5 frames per second, and how they couldn't get stuff done. And I was thinking back how I started shooting football on a RANGEFINDER Anscomat with Pan-X and getting that work printed.

If Shutter speed and iris info is important to you, PLAN THE SHOT AND WRITE IT DOWN. Yes, hopefully soon we'll have that stuff available in all digital cameras. But I'd be a heck of a lot happier if Sony busied themselves figuring out how to cure skew issues than getting me info I should know before I hit the record button.

Sorry to be irritable. I am just sitting here marveling at how I can lock 3 cameras together in my NLE with separate audio (with that useless timecode) and it's frustrating when everyone just wants everything automatically. No one wants to bother to put in the work any more. I want to light a feature with 3 lights and $1k budget. I want a camera that shoots in the dark has all day storage for $100. I want to cut native hyper-compressed footage in my NLE and I want clean playback at 60fps. And I only want to spend $800.

Best thing I ever did for my photography was to buy a bulb release. I wish we had the equivalent on these new video cameras.
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2009, 06:32 PM   #9
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 2,484
It's not fair to compare HD video to film. How many menu settings and other variables are there on a typical film camera?

I'm not saying I'd want, or need, to see the data on every shot, but once in awhile it would be nice. And "once in a while" is likely to occur to me long after I gave any thought to writing down my settings. And how am I going to write down dozens of settings that might be changing 30 times per second?

Think of what a great resource the metadata would be for novices and students. Can you imagine how great it would be for the student and/or instructor to actually look at what the camea was doing at any given time? That is powerful.

And what about when it comes to grading footage in post? Wouldn't it be useful to see the camera settings that were used, when and/or if they changed, and how they may have differed from other cameras on the same shoot?

I'm sure Sony has enough talented engineers on staff that any effort spent pefecting the metadata won't make any difference in the other issues you'd like to see addressed.

This thread woudn't have been started by Marius if there wasn't a desire to see the metadata.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2009, 07:13 PM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post

This thread woudn't have been started by Marius if there wasn't a desire to see the metadata.
Again, don't get me wrong. I've made comments here as well about the desire to have metadata. And to have access to things I thing would be infinitely more useful while operating the camera like a shade mask based on your chosen aspect ratio. The "Guides" are a good start but having a mask lay over what is in or out of 4:3, 2.40, 1.85, would be incredibly helpful. Overscan would be nice so that we could see definitively what is IN and what is OUT would be HUGELY helpful for anyone trying to actually compose their frames, and especially to those who are shooting on sets, or using booms or other hanging gear.

Yes, I can imagine the power of metadata. And there are certainly times when it would be useful. Run and gun situations, or solo shooter situations come to mind. I am often solo shooter on my projects and I don't always "remember" what settings I used, but I do tend to try to stick to simple settings. I decide in advance what my frame-rate will be. If it's narrative work, I am metering my scenes to determine my dynamic range and aperature. And then I don't change them unless I am on auto-iris (on the stabilizer). My shutter speeds may change, but typically my shutter angles don't, so I don't tend to write that down.

Again, this mini-rant is not against having the meta-data. But more against the idea that it is somehow an insult that it's not there. Five years ago, none of us even KNEW we could have the metadata. Three years ago, RED showed it was possible to have that and a lot more in an "inexpensive" camera. I would suspect that was about the time the EX1 was being developed. The idea that a $7k camera would have the same metadata as a $40k camera package probably didn't occur to the cinealta folks. Heck the F900 didn't have it, why put it on a handycam? The fact that there might have been the foresight to embed it in the stream is BRILLIANT. And if they turn it on, I'll certainly be happy. Unless it coincides with not having SDHC access.. then I'll go back to camera reports!

Anyway, rant over. I was just releasing some steam. Gotta get this rough cut done tonight before I bring in the a-cam footage tomorrow..
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2009, 08:49 PM   #11
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 2,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
But more against the idea that it is somehow an insult that it's not there.
On that, we can agree 100%. Good luck with the edit.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2009, 03:30 AM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chislehurst, London
Posts: 1,724
Sorry for this very basic question.

I have been looking through the manual and doing other searches but can't find the information on what shutter speed is used when the front shutter switch is set to "Off".

I have kept this set to Off for most of my work, but shot a sequence last week (handheld) using 25p and it looked awful. I now use a shutter speed of 1/50 or 180' or higher and the shots look better.
__________________
Eyes are a deaf manís ears. Ears are a blind manís eyes
Vincent Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2009, 05:36 AM   #13
Vortex Media
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New England, USA
Posts: 2,484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver View Post
what shutter speed is used when the front shutter switch is set to "Off".
When the shutter switch is OFF, the shutter speed matches the frame rate. For example, 30P is 1/30, 24P is 1/24, etc.
__________________
Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/
Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools
Doug Jensen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2009, 06:08 AM   #14
Trustee
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Chislehurst, London
Posts: 1,724
Thank you Doug, I thought this was the case, although I couldn't find this information in the manual. Certainly my handheld footage confirms this as well.

Back to school for me. :-(
__________________
Eyes are a deaf manís ears. Ears are a blind manís eyes
Vincent Oliver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2009, 09:45 AM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: gloucestershire uk
Posts: 93
I brought this up in another thread but as it's being discussed here I try again. I am a vortex dvd worshipper and am working in PAL land shooting 25P 50. The combo is giving me lousy results with even the slowest of follow pans. What might be the issues here if I went up to 30P and what shutter speed?
David Herman is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:58 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network