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Old August 4th, 2009, 02:22 PM   #1
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Converting 1080P to standard def.

When shooting 1080P, no mater how i convert to standard def, I get jagged interlace lines
when viewed on a Sony crt. I have tried converting to 525i 10 bit uncompressed timeline raw out of the camera and I have tried other conversions. The motion is very nice looking
but with movement I get jagged lines. Is this just what you get with down converted 1080P
verses 1080i.
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Old August 5th, 2009, 09:07 PM   #2
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OK so how are you down converting?

I use AJA Kona or Matrox MX02, they both do a great job in real time in M100 (my absolute favorite fast editing suite) and FCP (a clunker of an interface) but it works well.

A few years ago, when I first tried it with the Kona it was terrible as you describe it scrambled the fields , instead of repeating the same frame it skipped to the next one for the next field it looked awful any motion was all stair steps.

A few updates later and now it works perfectly in FCP and M100.

I always monitor on an interlaced SD Sony Pro monitor (component) and a HD Pro monitor (HDSDI) when I edit these days. If there is a problem I spot it right away. I use 30p a lot and 23.976p as well, both cards play both perfectly SD and HD. I also have scopes hooked up full time, a real help in CC.
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Old August 7th, 2009, 09:45 PM   #3
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converting 1080P to standard def

Olof,
I am using an EX1 and I am capturing sdi out through a kona card 1080P down converted
to 525 29.7 10 bit uncompressed. The camera is set to 1080P but I noticed that the Kona card sees the camera as 1080i. Is this because of psf output from the camera? The problem is that playing it back from the final cut timeline and viewing the analogue output through a sony crt I still see interlaced lines on fast movement. When viewing on a lcd tv I do not notice it as much but you can still tell it is there. I've tried setting the timeline to lower fields or none and it makes no difference. Having worked most of my life with interlaced
video I am not sure how to handle progressive files. Is there something else I am missing.
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Old August 8th, 2009, 07:47 AM   #4
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My workflow is different.

I transfer the EX footage into FCP (or M100) directly from the SxS card, you can do this with Express 34 slot or USB to camera. Express 34 is 5-8 X real time USB probably about 2X.

I then do all my editing in HD EX timeline any renders are in ProresHQ (this can easily be done in FCP it is a sequence option).

I use the Kona for real time playback as both SD and HD with both monitored (I have the HDe Kona card).

I have used this setup for 24p (23.976), 30p (29.97), 30i (29.97) 1080 and 720 footage. And I have always had perfect results both on interlaced (CRT) and progressive (LCD) PRO monitors and even consumer TV's. I always have all three connected up for monitoring final product, as well as scopes.

The EX codec is very efficient size wise really SD in size so Drive space is not really an issue. In my mind there is no reason not to edit in HD. And like I said I always use Kona or MX02 to monitor both SD and HD on CRT and LCD monitors.

Last edited by Olof Ekbergh; August 8th, 2009 at 07:49 AM. Reason: correction
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Old August 21st, 2009, 03:50 PM   #5
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My workflow is similar to Olof's as I pull the files from the card using a expresscard card reader and ClipBrowser/XDCam Transfer software. FCP 6 will edit the XDCAM footage just fine without having to render or convert to ProRes.

I edit in HD and use compressor to downconvert to SD and have found that I need to turn "Frame Controls" on in the compressor settings to remove the jagged lines when they show up.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 04:00 PM   #6
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HD-SDI (SMPTE 292M) is always going to be interlaced at 1080. It is progressive at 720. So you are going to need to deinterlace the video footage if you don't want interlace lines. The 1080p video setting on the camera is only for it's internal recording.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 04:50 PM   #7
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My daily workflow for producing local television commercials and corporate videos in HD 1080 30p and then converting to Standard Def (DV or DV Stream 480 interlaced) using a Apple computer:

ACQUISITION
Shoot in 1080 30p (29.97 fps....the default setting)

EDIT-FINAL CUT PRO
Use Easy Setup to make a XDCAM EX 1080p 29.97 project
Edit in a XDCAM EX 1080p 29.97 sequence (change the render setting to ProRes for better quality and predictability)
Use Apple Compressor to convert to Standard Def DV-Stream (letter box) (let me know if you need the settings)

EDIT-AFTER EFFECTS
Create a HDTV 1080p 29.97 Composition
Edit as normal
Render as ProRes 422 HQ 1080p 29.97
Use Apple Compressor to convert to Standard Def DV-Stream (letter box) (let me know if you need the settings)

I do tons of graphics so jagged edged graphics are not acceptable to me. Here are some examples from Vimeo: Mitch Lewis's videos on Vimeo

But none of them were uploaded from a Standard Definition file, but trust me the Standard Def files look just as good. I think the key is your compression settings when converting from HD to SD. I can provide more detail if necessary. (I have screen shots of the settings listed in another thread)
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Old August 21st, 2009, 09:33 PM   #8
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mitchell, please post those settings if you can or email privately.

Thanks
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Old August 21st, 2009, 10:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
HD-SDI (SMPTE 292M) is always going to be interlaced at 1080.
SMPTE 292M allows for the use of PsF, as Michael suggests. The EX outputs 1080P inside an interlace signal. It's called PsF or Progressive Segmented Frame. There should be no need to de-interlace it because the material is not interlaced, merely contained within a interlace wrapper. The HDSDi interface sees it as interlace but the actual signal is not interlaced material but progressive being sent divided into 2 fields, there is no recording time delay between the fields, so there should be no combing.

I don't know where the interlace lines are coming from in these workflows as the original signal is progressive, even if it is over HDSDi as PsF then it should not exhibit interlace combing unless the software is mixing up the fields from different frames. Is the DV codec getting used in the workflow somewhere as this has the reverse field order to everything else and that often results in strange issues.
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Old August 21st, 2009, 11:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonard Levy View Post
mitchell, please post those settings if you can or email privately.

Thanks
I dug up this post from an old thread.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/1180260-post11.html

Hope that helps! :)
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