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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old August 19th, 2009, 10:32 PM   #1
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Hey Guys,

I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere so if anyone could point me to the thread that would be great.

Using the EX-3 with FCP and doing a lot of corporate work. In the 'old' tape days, once finished a project we would delete all the raw files and just keep project files, masters etc and if need be, re-capture the raw at a later date. Now with file systems what should I be doing? To keep all the raw files of all jobs is insane in regards to space. Any ideas/suggestions. I'm new to the EX3 so is there anything that can be done as far as keeping offline, low res files that can be later reconnected to the original in full res?

Thanks in advance
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Old August 20th, 2009, 12:02 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Jason Leigh View Post
Hey Guys,

To keep all the raw files of all jobs is insane in regards to space.
Jason, welcome. Well, that is exactly what I am doing as are pretty much most of the EX owners. Some store on DL-DVD, others on the XDCAM disks that have just now been set up to write onto or, like myself, on hard drives. I store everything (raw BPAV folders & files) twice, on 2 separate drives. In fact, I have 2 Lacie 500Gb Ruggeds that I transfer the BPAV's to ALWAYS via Clip Browser with CRC ON. So straight away I have 2 separate copies. I then transfer the same files to the 2 hard drives in the editing computer. So, essentially, until I run out of Rugged space, I have the BPAV folder & files saved 4 times.

I have been doing this for almost 1 year now without any issue. Yep, get ready to store, store, store your raw files. It is the job that you trash that will need to be revisited one day in the future and if you haven't got the raw files.....

Where abouts are you based?
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Old August 20th, 2009, 02:57 AM   #3
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David is right. Just do be sure, even though you are on a Mac that you backup the entire BPAV folders using either clip browser or Shotput. Perhaps one suggestion is to backup the BPAV's onto one drive and the .movs on another. If you get a drive failure at least you do still have a copy of your clips. It's a good idea to keep the BPAV's as in the future it is likely that the need to use .mov's with FCP will go away :).

In terms of cost vs tape it's really not expensive. 500Gb usb drives are cheap and getting cheaper every day. With around 25 hours on a single drive your looking at $7 to $9 an hour for a pair of drives, that's less than pro-grade tape would cost. Plus you can keep one copy at the office and one somewhere else for added security.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 04:39 AM   #4
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..I then transfer the same files to the 2 hard drives in the editing computer
Not wanting to hijack this post but I think I might not be doing this the correct way.

I copy my SDHC cards to a folder on my HD with Clip browser2.5 with crc on.

Then, this is were I think I'm going wrong, I just copy and paste that folder to another folder on an external HD. Is it OK to do it this way or should I use CB to copy the folder to the external HD too.

Thanks in advance.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 06:23 AM   #5
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Use clip browser always.

Paul.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 06:36 AM   #6
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Here is what I do:

I insert the express card into my laptop and use Shotput or Clip Browser to import them onto the laptop. If I have my USB/firewire external drive hooked up to the laptop, Shotput will transfer to that at the same time. If I don't have the external drive hooked up, I drag and drop the BPAV folders onto it later.

Then I take the external hard drive to my editing computer when I get the chance and hook it up via firewire. I drag and drop the BPAV folders onto one of the internal hard drives and use Clip Browser to create MXF files for my editor (Sony Vegas). Never have a problem. Not sure why the insistence that Clip Browser or Shotput always be used to transfer the BPAV folders anywhere they have to go. Once either of those programs have been used for the initial import from the SXS or Express Card Adapter they seem to remain intact no matter how you transfer them from one place to the other.

John
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Old August 20th, 2009, 06:59 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Anthony McErlean View Post
I just copy and paste that folder to another folder on an external HD. Is it OK to do it this way or should I use CB to copy the folder to the external HD too.

Thanks in advance.
I use clip browser (with CRC on) to copy every time. It also ensures me that the first copy (using clip browser of course) worked properly and so on. Always (spot) check back the clips once they are copied.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 09:02 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Jason Leigh View Post
Hey Guys,

I'm sure this has been discussed somewhere so if anyone could point me to the thread that would be great.

Using the EX-3 with FCP and doing a lot of corporate work. In the 'old' tape days, once finished a project we would delete all the raw files and just keep project files, masters etc and if need be, re-capture the raw at a later date. Now with file systems what should I be doing? To keep all the raw files of all jobs is insane in regards to space. Any ideas/suggestions. I'm new to the EX3 so is there anything that can be done as far as keeping offline, low res files that can be later reconnected to the original in full res?

Thanks in advance
Jason, there's a lot of good advice in the previous replies for archiving your raw footage, but I don't think that was really the point of your question. Was it?

When I finish a project I might have 80GB of raw footage, music files, graphics, animation files, etc. scattered all over the place on my drives. And maybe out of that 80GB of raw footage I only really used 20GB of it and the rest got left on the cutting room floor.

By using FCP's "Media Manager" function you can automatically make a copy of ONLY the stuff you used in the project, placed in one neat little folder, anywhere you want it. There's no recompressing and no harm done to the files. Media Manager even trims clips so you only archive what actually got used (for example, 10 seconds out of a two minute clip). You can even control how much handles are added to the trimmed clips.

This is a great way to condense a project down and archive only the stuff you really need. If you ever need to re-open the project in the future, it's all there, ready to go in a matter of seconds.

Obviously, this is in addition to archiving your BPAV folders. This is an archive of the "project" and not the raw footage. Don't forget to archive your raw footage someplace else.

Does that answer your original question?
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Old August 20th, 2009, 09:35 AM   #9
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When you guys say to use Clip Browser w/ CRC on, does that mean in Preferences you check the box that says ... Perform CRC check after copy?

B

(I just unboxed the camera this week and have yet to have time to start playing with clip browser and its realtionship to FCP, ect. So much to learn.)
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Old August 20th, 2009, 09:53 AM   #10
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Thanks for the advice all.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 10:08 AM   #11
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I second Doug's Media Manager tip. One of the best features of Final Cut, really good.

Also it is great for swapping projects between Macs.

Top DVD for the EX1 by the way Doug!
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Old August 20th, 2009, 10:17 AM   #12
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LTO-4 data-tape.

I'm one of those who believe data-tape is still the best form of long-term archiving.

Conceptually, I think you need to have three storage buckets: online storage for editing, near-line storage that is quickly accessible via Ethernet/eSATA/USB/Firewire and then long-term offline storage which is typically shelved media.

It's that last bit that I believe data-tape is best suited for and not hard-drives.

I posted this product line elsewhere but it's probably worth a re-link to:

Cache-A Products

I think we'll see more products like these as people begin to realize that shelving hard drives for archiving long term is not realistic after a certain point - either due to physical storage limitations or the reliability of a mechanical device that hasn't been started in years.

I think once you've properly integrated a tape-drive workflow into your routine, it scales perfectly and will be much more reliable in the long term.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 10:33 AM   #13
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Is it necessary to install the SxS driver that came on a CD when I bought my EX3?.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 03:53 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Brett OBourke View Post
When you guys say to use Clip Browser w/ CRC on, does that mean in Preferences you check the box that says ... Perform CRC check after copy?

B

(I just unboxed the camera this week and have yet to have time to start playing with clip browser and its realtionship to FCP, ect. So much to learn.)
Yes, that's right.
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Old August 20th, 2009, 05:39 PM   #15
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oops. I was editing my post to fix a typo when my computer crashed and I lostmy original message.

I think this is about what I had written before:
I currently backup my projects on two hard drives. I will start backing up on 50GB optical discs as soon as I can get the firmware updated on my PDW-U1. The optical discs have proven to be 100% rock solid over the past 3.5 years that I've been using them.
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Last edited by Doug Jensen; August 20th, 2009 at 09:20 PM.
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