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Old September 27th, 2009, 12:20 AM   #1
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Ideal Recording format for SD production

Is there a optimal recording format when your production will be SD ntsc.

I am using the EX1 and have almost every software conversion utility available.
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Old September 27th, 2009, 12:26 AM   #2
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Probably 1080/30p. Most resolution, easy conversion to 480/60i.
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Old September 27th, 2009, 01:37 AM   #3
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The BBC recommends shooting at 720P - less pixels to throw out in the downsizing process.
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Old September 27th, 2009, 03:23 AM   #4
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720P60 would be the way to go. Converting 1080i to SD often leads to problems with the field order and 1080 has too much resolution which lead to excessive aliasing. 720 is better with less aliasing due to the lower resolution. If you shoot 60P when converting to 60i then individual frames get turned into fields so you get smooth motion but without the problems you get shooting 1080 60i.
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Old September 27th, 2009, 11:09 AM   #5
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Sorry, I should have added 720P 60 or 50fps (NTSC & PAL regions)
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Old September 27th, 2009, 11:24 AM   #6
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Agree 720 60p. We have many clients that require SD, but want a HD archive. I would prefer to archive in 1080, but our tests demonstrate 720 60P is the way to go for now.
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Old September 27th, 2009, 02:04 PM   #7
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So if you are say shooting weddings and down converting to SD dvds would you choose 720 instead of 1080
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Old September 27th, 2009, 02:46 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
If you shoot 60P when converting to 60i then individual frames get turned into fields so you get smooth motion but without the problems you get shooting 1080 60i.
Fully agreed, if you want fluid motion. The alternative would be 1080p/30 if "film motion" is actively desired. Least desirable is 1080i/30 *if the primary interest is SD*.
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Old September 27th, 2009, 05:13 PM   #9
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My best workflow for SD down-coversion off of EX camera

I saw the BBC recommendation to shoot 720P60 for downconvert and I am REALLY happy with the result.

In fact, yesterday I shot a sports video that needs to be 720x480 60i, and the cleanest, easiest workflow for me is:

- Shoot 720p60, protecting for 4:3

- Play back SD-SDI out of camera with the edge crop downconversion

- Capture the SDI with my AJA LHe doing a realtime conversion to DV50 codec (I don't have harddrives fast enough for uncompressed SDI video).

This is hands down the best looking SD video I have seen come off my camera. The drawback is of course you are back to real-time capture and you have to have a SDI-capable card to injest into your computer. And this workflow is only if you are shooting with the EX but you know you will only ever need an SD version of your video (which in this day does still apply sometimes).
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Old September 27th, 2009, 07:44 PM   #10
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Nearly all my work is for SD output and I have been shooting in 1080 25P (50fps), editing and rendering to a Full HD avi file then downconverting using MainConcept Reference.

I have noticed the aliasing in a short film I just completed where there were several close ups of text messages from a mobile phone. The text produced some aliasing over the several seconds it was on the screen.

I think I will try shooting in 720p for those projects I know will only be used on std DVD's and now am wondering if I should start shooting interlaced as well?

Ive always gone with progressive but as alot of my work ends up on std DVD, should I just shoot in interlaced and continue that down the work flow?

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Old September 28th, 2009, 07:42 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamie Roberts View Post

Ive always gone with progressive but as alot of my work ends up on std DVD, should I just shoot in interlaced and continue that down the work flow? Jamie
The answer has been given by Alister in his post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
720P60 would be the way to go. Converting 1080i to SD often leads to problems with the field order and 1080 has too much resolution which lead to excessive aliasing.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 08:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver View Post
The answer has been given by Alister in his post
60P? What... 60 progressive frames a second? 60 frames a second would be referring to 30fps interlaced I thought?

I shoot in 25 progressive FPS (Im in PAL land) and if I lived in NTSC land I would assume if I wanted to shoot progressive I would shoot in 30 or 24fps. When I read 60 or 50 as a reference to what format someone is shooting, I am assuming interlaced.

Or are we referring to shutter speed?

I am guilty of 'skimming' through threads a bit so maybe I missed something!

cheers

Jamie
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Old September 28th, 2009, 08:31 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver View Post
Sorry, I should have added 720P 60 or 50fps (NTSC & PAL regions)
Sorry Vincent.

Its the terminology thing that gets me. I shoot in 25 Progressive with a shutter speed of 50.

I hadnt used the 720 50p format option and hadnt noticed it! I will give it a go now as the work flow mentioned sounds good for what I do.

Im clearly a little slow on the uptake!

Cheers

Jamie
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Old September 28th, 2009, 09:15 AM   #14
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No problem Jamie, it can all be a bit daunting.

Quote:
I shoot in 25 progressive FPS (Im in PAL land) and if I lived in NTSC land I would assume if I wanted to shoot progressive I would shoot in 30 or 24fps. When I read 60 or 50 as a reference to what format someone is shooting, I am assuming interlaced.

Or are we referring to shutter speed?
Usually when refering to interlaced mode people will use 50i or 60i. progressive mode is indicated as 50P or 60P. 720 doesn't have an interlaced mode.

When shooting in 720 25P with the shutter turned OFF, then you exposures will be 1/25 sec on each frame. If shooting 720 50P then your shutter speed will be 1/50 sec per frame. If shooting in 720 25P then I would recommend that you turn the shutter ON (front switch on the EX3) and set your shutter speed to 1/50 sec (double the frame rate). You will still be shooting in 25fps. This should eliminate any slight blurring through camera movement.

Perhaps the best way is to take your camera out in the garden and shoot 1 minute of footage (data) using each of the settings and then compare. I did this and wrote the files to DVD, then looked at them on my TV set, at least it gave me a good idea of how the movie quality was going to look like.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 06:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver View Post
When shooting in 720 25P with the shutter turned OFF, then you exposures will be 1/25 sec on each frame. If shooting 720 50P then your shutter speed will be 1/50 sec per frame. If shooting in 720 25P then I would recommend that you turn the shutter ON (front switch on the EX3) and set your shutter speed to 1/50 sec (double the frame rate). You will still be shooting in 25fps. This should eliminate any slight blurring through camera movement.
Thanks Vincent.

The whole shutter off/on thing is a strange thing to me. I just leave it on and leave it at 1/50 usually. I dont really understand why I need the option of turning it off!

Cheers

Jamie
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