Ever had one of those jobs.....? Different cards, different days - same clip names... at DVinfo.net

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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old September 27th, 2009, 11:32 AM   #1
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Ever had one of those jobs.....? Different cards, different days - same clip names...

So, having broken news to the client that I had deleted half a mornings (see previous snivelling post) work i decided start to edit the job as I wanted to make sure the reshoot coveerd everyhting we missed and more so there was some kind of benefit.

And, lo and behold - the following morning's work is ALSO missing!!! Not only that but its as if the 100 odd clips were never there in the first place- there are no missing numbers from the file sequence.

Mercifully, this time I had back up on another drive but the camera had definitely gone back to a seemingly randomn number in the sequence and started again so that when I pulled in the consecutive numbers, 3 hours of work with the same sequence numbers but on a different card was missing.

Anyone else had this? Infuriating and dangerous!

Is this a camera fault, or is this job simply being interfered with by demons? or perhaps both...

S

PS so therefore could it could be possible I did not accidently delete the card pertaining to my previous post but that the act of downloading (via sony browser drag and drop not shotput) overwrote the original files because those on the next card had the same numbers.... ??
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Old September 27th, 2009, 11:58 AM   #2
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When I first got my EX-1 I had a shoot with it the very next day. I shot off and on the next few weeks for a reality show pilot and when it came time to edit all of the footage, I experienced exactly what you described: shots from different days would have the exact same name. This made editing a nightmare!

But then I learned to set my clip names manually, and this has been awesome as I can use the date, or "CAM1"/"CAM2" for multicamera shoots, etc.

Definitely set your clip name extensions manually to take advantage of this feature and avoid this problem on multi-day shoots.

You can do this in the last menu tab category (the one with the box symbol) and go under the menu item that says "clip". And always remember to set it for each shoot!

Sorry to hear about your lost footage...
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Old September 27th, 2009, 01:08 PM   #3
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I can't imagine taking on paid client work without FIRST working out the workflow.
I have no idea what you're doing but Sony Clip Browser 2.5.x creates a time stamped folder for each card offload so there is NO POSSIBILITY of overwriting files.

There's also no reason you should EVER have the same clip names. Set up naming convention in camera and it will change the number progressively for each clip. Use an alpha numeric combination allowing for 4 digit number and you'll get to 9999 clips before rolling over.

It took me all of a one day test to figure this out before actually doing a paying shoot. So now you're in the whole possibly thousands of dollars are reshooting and more thousands because this client has probably lost confidence in you altogether.
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Old September 27th, 2009, 01:44 PM   #4
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I can't imagine taking on paid client work without FIRST working out the workflow.

- me neither.

I have no idea what you're doing but Sony Clip Browser 2.5.x creates a time stamped folder for each card offload so there is NO POSSIBILITY of overwriting files.

- ah. well version 2 which I am using doesn't as far as I can see.

convention in camera and it will change the number progressively for each clip. Use an alpha numeric combination allowing for 4 digit number and you'll get to 9999 clips before rolling over.

- Theoretically, yes, and I have of course done that not having been born yesterday and having successfully filmed about 20K clips on same camera.

Thats not what is causing the problem. It has randomnly named 130 odd clips from the start of day 2 with the same names at it gave to the last 130 odd clips filmed on the previous day.



It took me all of a one day test to figure this out before actually doing a paying shoot. So now you're in the whole possibly thousands of dollars are reshooting and more thousands because this client has probably lost confidence in you altogether.

- Hmmmm. Thanks - I will get hold of 2.5.

S
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Old September 27th, 2009, 04:56 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Seeman View Post

There's also no reason you should EVER have the same clip names. Set up naming convention in camera and it will change the number progressively for each clip. Use an alpha numeric combination allowing for 4 digit number and you'll get to 9999 clips before rolling over.
This is the thing to be aware of. I saw the camera generating clip names and so before I started naming my clip headings, I used to let the camera generate whatever clip names it wanted to automatically. After shooting just a few days, I got repeated clip names. I have no idea why it did this or how the camera generates clip headings.

This is a very valid thread for new users to the EX workflow to be aware of: if you let the camera generate clip names all by itself, without first designating a clip name (heading), the camera could very well generate duplicate names on the same project over several shooting days.

Surely the original poster and myself aren't the only ones to have this happen to us?
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Last edited by Brian Mills; September 27th, 2009 at 05:00 PM. Reason: clarification
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Old September 27th, 2009, 05:24 PM   #6
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I keep a log in my camera bag of my clip naming numbering system.

For personal jobs I use a DWC prefix, and others for each of my regular clients: ENG, VIS, DHG etc.

When starting a new job for an existing client, I can set the EX1 to record the first new clip of the shoot with a clip number following on from whatever I last shot for them according to the log. The log also shows which of my 8 SD cards I was recording on.

I keep dual backups of BPAV folders (using OSX browser and verified using Toast) as well as dual backups of quicktimes extracted by FCP from the cards after editing. So far no problems.
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Old September 27th, 2009, 07:11 PM   #7
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Are you formatting the cards at the end of a job, or deleting the clips? You want to delete all clips otherwise everything resets, you have mulltiple clips with the same numbers, your head hurts and the globe spins off axis.
I've had scares (usually at the end of a long day and all so far attributed to operator error/fatigue), but with genuine SxS cards I believe this system is more secure than trusting a tape to post office, fedex or some producers.
It took me a while to work out my personal work flow, but it is my habit to make sure the data is on the SxS by checking in the camera, then getting it laid off to the computer asap. WHen it came out I tried shotput. It may have been marginally faster but it made things confusing. CRC probably is wonderful ( and I may be struck by lightning for notusing it religiously) but I find it quick and secure to drag and drop, copy and paste or whatever to get two copies in addition to the cards; and never erase the cards until I have at least two copies on different drives. One drive (lacie Rugged) goes with the producer, one goes with me to be copied onto a backup at home. I never delete all the clips until I have to and now only use the adapters and sdhc cards as another backup, never for original shooting. Too scary.
Make sure you have checked everywhere you touched - files get murdered but rarely commit suicide. Look in the trash, search all drives for bpav folders. If you did screw up bigtime you probably didn't do it twice in two days unless your workflow is seriously compromised.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 01:33 AM   #8
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Did you accidentally use the "update" setting in the menu by any chance. This reads the title of the last clip on the card and and starts the naming and numbering from their.
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Old September 28th, 2009, 02:26 AM   #9
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"if you let the camera generate clip names all by itself, without first designating a clip name (heading), the camera could very well generate duplicate names on the same project over several shooting days."

people are missing the point - I have designated a clip name heading from day 1 of use for a year - and yet this week it has still randomnly assigned the same 4 figure number following my clip headings to 2 different sets of clips - it got to 8579 and then went backwards and started again at 8408 on the next card....

No time to read all the posts (thnaks for all the helpful comments guys) but basically I changed nothing except the card and the batteries which got charged overnight.

s
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Old October 20th, 2009, 01:11 PM   #10
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same clip names

One other procedure to consider to avoid producing duplicate clip names/numbers.

You need to turn off the camera before changing the battery. If you leave the camera in the pause mode and remove the battery the camera can start up using previous clip names/numbers.

I pulled my hair out over this until a Sony tech person told me about how this can happen.
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