Does Handy35 work with EX3?

Adam Stanislav · November 4th, 2009, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonard Levy

Its possible the new version of the Redrock is OK as well.

Thanks, Leonard. I have been researching the new Redrock all day today and decided I would be much better off with it than the Handy35 despite it (the Redrock) being big and ugly.

The main reason is my EF lenses: The new Redrock actually can control EF lenses electronically. Well, not totally, just the iris, but that is the most important part, as everything else on EF lenses can be handled manually. Here is a video about their new Canon EF "Live Lens" adaptor (though I wish it was detachable so you could change the iris while recording without having to press a button on the lens adapter which is likely to shake the image momentarily):

And I have just discovered that Phillip Bloom has reviewed it on the EX1 and gave it is stamp of approval:

Philip Bloom | Redrock Encore/EX1 Review

According to his review they have addressed all the issues you have mentioned.

So, I have now abandoned the idea of getting the Handy35 and am going to see about getting the new Redrock.

Chuck Spaulding · November 8th, 2009, 02:29 PM

Why would you choose either of these adapters?

I see the need for the "Redrock" type of adapters for the EX1 but since the EX3 has removable lenses can't you get an adapter that enables you to mount Nikon lenses directly to the EX3? And are there similar adapters for Canon lenses etc?

Do adapters like the Redrock Encore or Handy35 have an advantage over mounting the lens directly to the camera without one of these adapters?

Adam Stanislav · November 8th, 2009, 02:51 PM

Yes, they have an advantage over mounting them directly to the EX3: with an adapter like those mentioned, they have the depth of field of film.

With the adapters the lens (Canon, Nikon, Zeiss, etc) projects the captured image onto a 24x36 mm area on the ground glass inside the adapter, just like in a photo film camera. The EX3 (or any other video camera) then films that image with all of its depth of field.

So, essentially, your video camera becomes a motion picture film scanner but without the film (and actually better because the 24x36 mm image is larger than what motion picture film cameras capture). If you mounted the 35 mm lens directly on an EX3, you would be using it with just its 1/2" capture device, so you would not get the same depth of field as you can get with these adapters, and you may as well use the lens that came with the EX3 (which is a very good lens anyway).

Chuck Spaulding · November 8th, 2009, 07:32 PM

Thanks for the reply Adam. Makes a lot of sense, it wasn't obvious to me what the difference might be.

As an interim step, is there an advantage to connecting SLR lenses to the EX3 over the stock lens?

Maybe I should explain the reason for my question, I have a project that involves shooting some incredibly rare cars indoors with controlled lighting and outside in beautiful vistas. Most of these cars are valued well above $1M with a couple valued in excess of $10M. So I want as good a look as I can reasonably get.

I have shots some tests with an EX3 and the Canon 5dMkII. Footage from a 5dMkII looks amazing, and although I might use some of the footage from that camera I don't believe its the right camera for this project. The EX3 footage looks very good but not quite as good as I'd like. Nothing against the camera, I like it a lot, I'm just looking for ways to improve it. I'm also intrigued by the NanoFLASH and using 100Mb 4:2:2.

The Red might be an interesting solution but I'm certainly not ready to move up to that, so I'm looking for the right combination of technology that would make the EX3 work well for this application.

Chuck Spaulding · November 8th, 2009, 07:36 PM

Just out of curiosity, would it be beneficial to use an adapter to attach a Nikon "E" series 100mm lens directly to the EX3 and then the Redrock Encore?

Wouldn't that make a more compact setup with good glass all the way through?

Adam Stanislav · November 8th, 2009, 09:06 PM

I seriously doubt that attaching a 100 mm Nikon lens directly to the camera and the Redrock adapter to that lens would work. The 1/2" image area is much smaller than that of the 35 mm film, so the effective focal length of the Nikon would be considerably longer than 100 mm. But the distance of the adapter from the lens is fixed, so your 100 mm lens would be too close and only see a small portion of the image on the ground glass, which would completely defeat the purpose of the adapter.

Leonard Levy · November 9th, 2009, 01:01 AM

Adam,

Well I hope that works for you. Personally I am a stickler about edge to edge sharpness (not that it's mattered in my work much) and am not convinced by anecdotal reviews. I want to see a chart with lenses wide open, and almost no one ever bothers to shoot them . I love Phil and he's a fabulous artist but he's sometimes been off about judging how sharp the adapters are. In that review I'd have to take issue with his commenting that the SGBlade isn't quite there. I've posted charts that clearly show the Blade leaves the Extreme behind and arguably very similar in sharpness to the Ultimate.( I couldn't get them side by side.) Nevertheless the Encore sounds pretty decent and with your other lens needs sounds like a good way to go.

Adam Stanislav · November 9th, 2009, 10:42 PM

I have ordered the Redrock today. Their email stated they would start making one for me as soon as they receive the money (which is strange since I paid with a credit card, so they should have received it instantly), and should finish making it within 20 days after that.

Rather a long wait but they claim they keep their prices low ($2,000 is low?) by not keeping any inventory and making their products only after people order them.

Even though I have lenses with the Canon EF mount, I decided not to order their Live Lens, which can change the aperture of the EF lenses electronically (it cannot be changed manually, nice move, Canon, grrr). The reason? The control is right on the adapter, so pushing a button to change the f-stop is most likely to shake the lens, which is unacceptable.

I told them if they make it properly, with a connector to which a remote lens control can be attached by a cable, so the control can rest on the tripod handle, then I will be interested. Their reply was that the video I saw with the shaking lens was of the prototype and that now the buttons are easier to push. That reply did not make me want to buy the Live Lens at all. If you mount your camera on a jib, you need a controller on a long cable, period.

November 8th, 2009, 02:29 PM	#17
Chuck Spaulding Trustee Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Thousand Oaks Posts: 1,099	Why would you choose either of these adapters? I see the need for the "Redrock" type of adapters for the EX1 but since the EX3 has removable lenses can't you get an adapter that enables you to mount Nikon lenses directly to the EX3? And are there similar adapters for Canon lenses etc? Do adapters like the Redrock Encore or Handy35 have an advantage over mounting the lens directly to the camera without one of these adapters?

November 8th, 2009, 02:51 PM	#18
Adam Stanislav Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 1,258	Yes, they have an advantage over mounting them directly to the EX3: with an adapter like those mentioned, they have the depth of field of film. With the adapters the lens (Canon, Nikon, Zeiss, etc) projects the captured image onto a 24x36 mm area on the ground glass inside the adapter, just like in a photo film camera. The EX3 (or any other video camera) then films that image with all of its depth of field. So, essentially, your video camera becomes a motion picture film scanner but without the film (and actually better because the 24x36 mm image is larger than what motion picture film cameras capture). If you mounted the 35 mm lens directly on an EX3, you would be using it with just its 1/2" capture device, so you would not get the same depth of field as you can get with these adapters, and you may as well use the lens that came with the EX3 (which is a very good lens anyway).

November 8th, 2009, 07:32 PM	#19
Chuck Spaulding Trustee Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Thousand Oaks Posts: 1,099	Thanks for the reply Adam. Makes a lot of sense, it wasn't obvious to me what the difference might be. As an interim step, is there an advantage to connecting SLR lenses to the EX3 over the stock lens? Maybe I should explain the reason for my question, I have a project that involves shooting some incredibly rare cars indoors with controlled lighting and outside in beautiful vistas. Most of these cars are valued well above $1M with a couple valued in excess of $10M. So I want as good a look as I can reasonably get. I have shots some tests with an EX3 and the Canon 5dMkII. Footage from a 5dMkII looks amazing, and although I might use some of the footage from that camera I don't believe its the right camera for this project. The EX3 footage looks very good but not quite as good as I'd like. Nothing against the camera, I like it a lot, I'm just looking for ways to improve it. I'm also intrigued by the NanoFLASH and using 100Mb 4:2:2. The Red might be an interesting solution but I'm certainly not ready to move up to that, so I'm looking for the right combination of technology that would make the EX3 work well for this application.

November 8th, 2009, 07:36 PM	#20
Chuck Spaulding Trustee Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Thousand Oaks Posts: 1,099	Just out of curiosity, would it be beneficial to use an adapter to attach a Nikon "E" series 100mm lens directly to the EX3 and then the Redrock Encore? Wouldn't that make a more compact setup with good glass all the way through?

November 8th, 2009, 09:06 PM	#21
Adam Stanislav Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 1,258	I seriously doubt that attaching a 100 mm Nikon lens directly to the camera and the Redrock adapter to that lens would work. The 1/2" image area is much smaller than that of the 35 mm film, so the effective focal length of the Nikon would be considerably longer than 100 mm. But the distance of the adapter from the lens is fixed, so your 100 mm lens would be too close and only see a small portion of the image on the ground glass, which would completely defeat the purpose of the adapter.

November 9th, 2009, 01:01 AM	#22
Leonard Levy Trustee Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,684	Adam, Well I hope that works for you. Personally I am a stickler about edge to edge sharpness (not that it's mattered in my work much) and am not convinced by anecdotal reviews. I want to see a chart with lenses wide open, and almost no one ever bothers to shoot them . I love Phil and he's a fabulous artist but he's sometimes been off about judging how sharp the adapters are. In that review I'd have to take issue with his commenting that the SGBlade isn't quite there. I've posted charts that clearly show the Blade leaves the Extreme behind and arguably very similar in sharpness to the Ultimate.( I couldn't get them side by side.) Nevertheless the Encore sounds pretty decent and with your other lens needs sounds like a good way to go.

November 9th, 2009, 10:42 PM	#23
Adam Stanislav Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Rhinelander, WI Posts: 1,258	I have ordered the Redrock today. Their email stated they would start making one for me as soon as they receive the money (which is strange since I paid with a credit card, so they should have received it instantly), and should finish making it within 20 days after that. Rather a long wait but they claim they keep their prices low ($2,000 is low?) by not keeping any inventory and making their products only after people order them. Even though I have lenses with the Canon EF mount, I decided not to order their Live Lens, which can change the aperture of the EF lenses electronically (it cannot be changed manually, nice move, Canon, grrr). The reason? The control is right on the adapter, so pushing a button to change the f-stop is most likely to shake the lens, which is unacceptable. I told them if they make it properly, with a connector to which a remote lens control can be attached by a cable, so the control can rest on the tripod handle, then I will be interested. Their reply was that the video I saw with the shaking lens was of the prototype and that now the buttons are easier to push. That reply did not make me want to buy the Live Lens at all. If you mount your camera on a jib, you need a controller on a long cable, period.