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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old December 27th, 2009, 05:31 PM   #31
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Marty,

You get HDSDI and HD Component and down converted Composite (always SD) with choice of squeeze, crop or letterbox, in the new EX1R, in the EX3 and EX1 you get S (always SD) as well I think (I never use S, composite is more accurate).
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Old December 27th, 2009, 07:59 PM   #32
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Ok i am setting up 4of5 monitors, HDMI , Video , YRB, and a DV to see the DV output. no SDI :-(
HDMI - Consumer LCD tv
Video - Consumer video monitor
YRB - Component to Consumer LCD tv
DV - DV camera
(there is no S output that i can find on the camera.)

When HD format is selected 1080-60i:

DV-output, stays steady non-stop (no mater what the other stuff is set for) as long as DVCAM output is on *
If downconverting to DV, only the SD HDMI or Component output works.
If downconverting to HDV, the HD signals for HDMI or Component do still work.

HDMI- Only shows when switched to HDMI, no video, no YRB available at that time.

YRB - only shows when switched to Component no Video shows at the same time, no HDMI at the same time

Video - only on when output its switched to composite , HDMI and YRB are both gone


*DV has its usual massive video/audio delay, making a breakout from DV usless for realtime live display when integrated with live audio.
HDMI digital connection has only like a 1 frame delay.
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Last edited by Marty Welk; December 28th, 2009 at 04:29 AM.
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Old December 27th, 2009, 08:21 PM   #33
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The EX1R dropped S video and has HDMI instead.

As far as I know the iLink is only if you use HDV at 1440 x 1080. I know that is the way it is on the EX3 and I think it is the same on the EX1R.

You actually have to disable SDI to get iLink to work on the EX3. I will check the manual on the EX1R to see if it is the same.

You could loop the component or composite through a couple monitors, I guess your consumer monitors don't loop signals so get a signal splitter for the composite signal.

Or you may have a tape deck you can run the signal through and hook one monitor to S and one to composite out of the deck. SDI will loop a signal as well, I know you don't have SDI though.

Added edit:

From the EX1R Manual p.138

When an HDV-compatible video format (SP
1440/60i, SP 1440/50i, or SP 1440/24P) or a
DVCAM-compatible video format (format of SD
Mode) is selected, setting the “i.LINK I/O” of the
OTHERS menu to “HDV” or “DVCAM” enables
signal inputs/outputs via the i.LINK(HDV/DV)
connector.
You can record the same images as those
recorded on an SxS memory card in this
camcorder on an external device connected to the
i.LINK(HDV/DV) connector, or record playback
pictures (HDV streams) of the external device on
the memory card in the camcorder.
For playback, DVCAM streams of 16-bit 2-
channel lock audio are acceptable.
Nonlinear editing conforming to the HDV format
is also enabled.

and p.135:

Note
If input/output at the i.LINK (HDV/DV)
connector are enabled (page 138), no signal is fed
out from the SDI OUT connector.
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Old December 27th, 2009, 09:05 PM   #34
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ahhh.
ok i added some stuff.
and i was able to downconvert to DV when the camera is still recording in 1920 (as far as i can tell) not sure about aspect or cropping yet.

Having the I-Link ON DV SD downconvert, DID effect the HD capability of the outputs, they would only do SD then (even though both are selectable). When downconverting HDV the HD&SD output selections work as expected. *
Turning off the I-Link totally, did not effect the fact that you can not have your Video or HDMI or YRB all at Once. you only get one of those at a time.

and as that note points out, you probably cant have I-Link and SDI both either.

*normal for sony, would have been to disable the selection of the HD-HDMI or HD-YRB as outputs, when the i-link is downconverting to DV, beings they did not work then. Only the SD-HDMI or SD-YBR worked then.

geez and just when i thought i could say it less confusing than the manuel does :-)
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Old December 27th, 2009, 11:33 PM   #35
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Other stuff i wanted to know:

Low/no light performance, compared to PD250 & Vx2000 type DV 3xCCD camera (these were very low light capable for 3CCD)
at 6DB gain, both struggling with minimal lighting, both relativly as noisey. After dv conversion, both relative in being able to see stuff in the low light.
Gain differentials beyond that, have big differences, but both look so bad with higher gains after SD conversion . . . whatever. like the 18Db gain with factory settings on the ex1r is completly useless, on the dv cam it is usable but again i would prefer dark to that much noise, so it is useless too.
If you use the old 3CCD low light sony stuff (vrses the cannon) this is basically the same sort of low-light capability in HD, unlike some of the older HD and HDV CCD cams.

DV to DV comparisons:
When originating in HD, the ex1r make a slightly better SD DV output than the DV cam, when originating in SD, they look a lot more similar, the Ex1r has better color and is handling lighting situations better than the dv camera (in HD), noticably so. I have not checked the effects of compressing 4times as much, as the view is straight out of the camera.

zoom
the zoom length on the dv cam will go closer than the HD camera, even though its zoom is only 12x (the HD cam is 14x) the HD working more on the Wider side. Inconsequential differences even for us when stuffed in the back of a venue.

So would i use either of the cams for SD crud, in low light, when stuffed to far back from the subjects, yes but they sure wouldnt Mix well, Ex1r has much better color correctness.
Would I care if doing all SD that i had shot originally in HD, NO, the customer had better upgrade.

Chopped up blacks :
not, didnt see this , the LCD screen on the cam has a critical view area, like all LCD screens of that size. depending on the angle, can change how it looks, but the blacks on the output are still quite there. The EVF is almost worse for clipping more blacks than are seen on output.
EX: look into the lcd viewer straight or below it, and black velvet is all gone to black, look at the viewer above it a bit and you can see some of what you missed, look on even a LCD monitor output, and every aspect of the black velvet from one end to the other shows up just fine. (the black was part of a whole picture not adjusted for black to be grey)
(this is all on factory settings) the lcd viewer on cam (default) will represent a picture that is not totally usefull to how it might look on 20 other things (as usual).
I think i will adjust the LCD to guess what it might look like on other tv items.
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Last edited by Marty Welk; December 28th, 2009 at 04:12 AM.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 12:21 AM   #36
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Grip Zoom rocker
3 times while shooting today, i got caught by a runaway zoom, a mere touch of the rocker and it will Zoom-In , zoom out is the usual few mm of movement before engagement.
I had to learn to keep my slimey hands off the rocker. with other rockers, i will often be ready with the zoom, and rough on the rocker too. Other rockers have had more Play before zoom engagement, so to be ready to zoom i had to have it pre-pressurized in the direction i was going, so i could do a controlled zoom.

with this here cam, a touch of the zoom rocker in the IN direction sets it off, but it takes some movement before it starts doing the zoom Out.
it is as if the Detent position is offset from the spring detent.

add to that, the zoom at slow IN is spastic, the human is trying to control it, but it seems to go off and do its own Digital thing without me. I wish they would allow for zoom to be Variable still but set to low, med and high. with crash zooms done manually at the lens.

I am tempted to take it apart and shift some stuff around a bit, even if it takes glue and foam tape to do so :-)

from tape to tapless:
Dream on, the idea of not having a roll back anymore, instant start and stop, instant recording and all You now have to wait for the computer/camera to boot (longer startup) Yaaawwn, your supposed to wait till a write is completed before you can just hit the record button again, it still takes time to view the playback (thumbnails), rec-review is faster. Before it was tape backroll, now its cache clearing, replace one with the other.
You no longer have to sit on the same hunk of tape grinding it into dropouts while waiting for a shot.
Impatient Camera person 0 , Impatient camera 1. It will sit there waiting for the shot till the battery runs out, Start stop start stop, boom boom boom, without clearing the cache and finishing write, Everything recorded and played back FINE. I would hate to see what happens when it doesnt , but it does respond in an instant.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 02:25 AM   #37
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Color:
default, the scene i set up looks on the LCD tv almost exactally as it does with the eyes. I am surprised more by the LCD tv :-) than the camera . with the color on the LCD on "VIVID" it has a bit more color than the original scene. with the LCD tv on "STANDARD" is has a little less color than the original scene.
With the LCD color set on MY settings "expert2" a balance between the over and under, and what i had it set for to use, it had the same color as the original scene.
The black velvet indeed is brown/black :-( and there was no 3D .

i have a picture of the original and the tv, but because the digital still camera had more problems with color than the EX1r i guess the picture is useless :-)
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Old December 28th, 2009, 03:48 AM   #38
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Spotlight compensation, and AE Auto iris adjustment. (special circumstances)
The "spotlight" setting is more reactionary during actual spotlight occurances, on the other cameras it could be used as an overall AE lowering, even without an spotlight in use.

Auto iris seems to be weighted to about 70% in the center of the picture, covering more on the horizontal than the vertical. so your spotlighted subject , kept centered, will be happy.
but as you allow screen movement and the person leans to the left and right of the screen (where they are almost falling off the screen) then the iris will go too bright.
so basically the AE turned the measly 1Fstop down, with spotlight correction, is sufficent for properly tracked items, and will allows for the movement of the person in the direction of thier travel.

my WIDE view however, sees the spotlight as just some overbright thing that is taking so little of the pixels up that it is ignored, and therfore a complete whiteout.

Wide view must be on Manual iris, with dark backgrounds or the usual horrible theatre lighting there is no other choice, there is not enough AE compensation to roll down far enough.
tracking close view must keep subject slightly more centered but can still allow for screen move, and auto iris with spotlight compensation will work.

of course that would be similar if you had a light glowing in your picture, you wanted the camera to ignore, if its off to the edges of the screen or small ammount of pixels taken up by it , it will be ignored, and the rest of your picture will be worried about.

I did not find any AE AREA settings, as seen on the other cameras? where you can set the area that the AE works in. Like ignoring the sky or ignoring the ground, or ignoring the edges. if anyone knows where the AE "Zone" settings are , please do tell.
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Old December 28th, 2009, 04:00 AM   #39
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Handle Zoom. The handle zoom speed WILL go lower than 8, it just doesnt show numbers below 8. it reverts to charachters - ^ _ trying to tell me how stupid i am for going that low.

at 3or4 (cant quite tell) the zoom speed is Very slow, and still fully functional (on this camera), below that it acts spastic again just like the Grip zoom does at its lowest setting. I am beggining to think that my (lack of) skill with the grip zoom has to do with the camera not the blood pumping through my finger :-)
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Old December 28th, 2009, 08:17 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Welk View Post
I am beggining to think that my (lack of) skill with the grip zoom has to do with the camera not the blood pumping through my finger :-)
Check out this thread:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...ly-normal.html
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Old December 31st, 2009, 05:13 PM   #41
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ND Filter:
When switching the ND filter, make sure it clunks good into it's place.
Somehow one of my test shots ended up with a very small part of the ND filter wheel in my frame. on a subsequent shoot, while trying to switch it without clunking noises, i did the same thing again , and noticed it immediatly, as much of the wheel was still in my frame.
From that moment on, i would Clunk it hard and check it well.
that could keep someone from doing that when it is important.

Clip-Browser software:
ok so now i can finnaly see anything on the computer that i shot, as i was watching it on the camera Via the HDMI. the browser is nice and intuitive.
The clip browser software makes a DV downconvert that is terrible? looks far worse than any original SD DV i have ever shot? If i am going to Downconvert i need something that will do it better even if it takes much more time to do so?
I cant find a way to Play ALL out of the clip browser?
I am not finished reading the clip browser manual, but the manuel is so full of complications i think i am going to have to start taking notes. I want to comprehend the least i NEED, and keep from Re-De-Compressions whenever possible.
Is there a simple WIndows XDcam codec that makes the playing of this stuff on the computer simple like every other codec in the world?
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Old December 31st, 2009, 05:52 PM   #42
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Distance that a Cell Phone induces noise into the camera:
This is a huge problem for some devices. based only on the camera itself, a cell phone (transmitting) did not induce noise till it was rediculously close to the camera, then it was induced into the Audio at about 3" from the mic area (i assume analog audio area).
so unless i am taking calls while still running the camera itself, doesnt seem to be a problem. When using Digital output. component output could be different, being analog.

Distance that a FRS radio induces noise into the camera:
FRS type headsets can be a problem when very close to some devices, it is a much smaller transmission than a cell phone, and didnt cause any problems. Switched to GMRS same thing , no visable problems, even right next to the camera.
Having a FRS wireless communication device on the belt (for example) is not a worry.

Does not include any wireless mic testing.
seems to be much better sheilded (or more digital) than other stuff is, if the operators/audience is not stuffing thier devices right up next to the camera, the camera itself doesnt seem to have issues with this like others can.
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Old January 2nd, 2010, 11:08 PM   #43
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More Crasy tests
The start Stop, start stop, . . etc test: Passed with flinging colors.

Reading about other memory controllers, and cache writing out and all that good stuff, and being a person who attempts to edit in the camera itself, i had to test the reliability and speed and what is and isn't recorded on hot fast recording/editing in cam.
I set up a Timer , shot it with the camera, and tried to record specific numbers on the timer . I would record the seconds 1-5 but not 6-10. another person watched the Chips write led to see what it was up to.
it recorded on the chip exactally as i had pressed the button, we noticed that 5 seconds was also enough time to finish the write/buffering on the SxS memory card.

Then i had to take it a step further, for those gotta have it pause-whip pan-Unpause moments. so i tested recording all seconds 1-9 but not the 10th second. Still it recorded exactally as i had intended, even with the cache and buffers not having cleared and finished. the light remained RED when i started the next recording, and it still got the recording done on my mark everytime.

test not done yet with adapted SDHC memory.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 01:05 AM   #44
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Good work Marty, problems with contamination of IR? thanks for posting
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 03:22 AM   #45
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http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...-pmw-ex1r.html <-- comparison here. Matt Daviss

i have little to compare to on the IR contamination, as i have never seen that Discussed before looking into the XD-Cam line, and i would bet that my SD cams have some of that too.

in my tests, the Black velvet background is not fully black/grey but instead black/brown, but at the next levels up of black (for me would be black pants Against a black background) i dont see any problem. but i will freak out later when some grooms black tux is going brownish. then mabey just crunch the blacks a bit in post, or remove colors from the dark areas. right now i would prefer that colors in the dark show up in rotten lighting conditions. I dont like putting on ANY glass in front of my lens, unless i must, reflections, reduced low-light, noise on the glass, all that stuff i would have a bigger problem over than the slight brownish in the black.

when on the stage some dork will put Black dancers against a black background, i can actually HOPE for some "contamination" to seperate the 2 :-)

Dux1.jpg Default settings, 6100k interlace converted.
with the eyes when the malards turn around the green head is blue, whatever??? its a pic, and i should have shown more pics.

the dog donated some of his mangled toys, this gets configured many different ways, to attempt simulations of screwey situations.
MiniStage.jpg Defaults Halogen incan lighting 2800k setting, Interlace both feilds still, light is purposfully offset, we make it even worse than this for testing.

the camera chose those temperatures, and there is no white offset in play, I choose differentaly when manually setting.
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Last edited by Marty Welk; January 3rd, 2010 at 04:48 AM.
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