Query on using Clip Browser and XDCam Transfer. at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 14th, 2009, 05:40 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 604
Query on using Clip Browser and XDCam Transfer.

There seems to be at least three ways of placing EX clips in FCP by means of Clip Browser and XDCam Transfer.

First there is the method described by Mitchell Lewis where all clips are transferred using Clip Browser to a suitable long term storage file and from there added to XDCam Transfer. In Transfer the clips are then labeled, graded and imported into FCP if their grading is satisfactory. Before importing they can also be made into sub-clips if desired.

There also seems to be the possibility of exporting from clip Browser using the menu option “make new clip using ins and outs” or exporting via the “MXF to NLE” option. In either case the clips can be trimmed before export if necessary.

Are there any advantages and / or disadvantages one should know about before settling on preferably just one of these techniques?
Alastair Traill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2009, 07:19 AM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,777
MXF for NLE is not needed for FCP. FCP works best with MOV.
ClipBrowser is a cross platform not specific to an NLE.
XDCAM Transfer is specific to FCP as it wraps to MOV.
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2009, 08:04 AM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 171
Confused new Clip Browser user

I'm an old XDCAM Transfer (using PDW-350) user but a new Clip Browser user, having just bought a PMW-EX1R. I haven't found any tutorials or such about clip browser. Am I to understand that clip browser is not used to get clips into FCP? I have not found any easy way to do that just playing around with it. I did use XDCAM Transfer to get EX1R clips into FCP, albeit with some cryptic warnings in the process. What then is the main function of clip browser, besides viewing and de-banding (new in 2.6)?
__________________
esquared
Eric Emerick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2009, 08:08 AM   #4
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,777
ClipBrowser is for copy and backup of your CAMERA MASTERS.
If you use XDCAM Transfer and the erase the cards, you've hosed your BPAV and your camera masters with them.
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2009, 09:08 AM   #5
New Boot
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Pierre, South Dakota
Posts: 12
Another workflow. I use Clip Browser to transfer from the cards onto my hard drives and to make dvd archives. I use the Log and Transfer tool in FCP to pull clips off the hard drive and into FCP. I've tried to use XDCAm transfer, but I just can't find a use for it in my workflow.
I'm still hoping that they somehow combine XDcam Transfer and Clip Browser and work out the metadata stuff so all the naming in the workflow remains all the way into FCP. That's the biggest bottleneck in my workflow right now.
Scott Howard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 14th, 2009, 09:44 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 604
Quote: -ClipBrowser is for copy and backup of your CAMERA MASTERS.
If you use XDCAM Transfer and the erase the cards, you've hosed your BPAV and your camera masters with them

Quote: -MXF for NLE is not needed for FCP. FCP works best with MOV.
ClipBrowser is a cross platform not specific to an NLE.
XDCAM Transfer is specific to FCP as it wraps to MOV.Thanks Craig that has helped.

Thanks Craig,
I guess I am aiming to be able: -
• Safely store my results without loss of quality.
• and draw on the material as required.

However there is a lot to be clarified.
The Clip Browser proponents talk about BPAV’s. What should I find in a BPAV? When I do as Mitchell Lewis describes above I find a bundle of files included with the clips in the designated folder. Are these BPAV’s? Some are .MXL and when clicked open “Color” whereas the other files seem to be empty. What am I missing?

Another praised feature of Clip Browser is the error correcting software (CRC) that I presume Transfer does not have, so this is something to consider even though I do not need .MXF files.
Alastair Traill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2009, 04:13 AM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 259
Hi Alastair

BPAV is the top level folder the EX cameras create on the SxS card. Within it is folder called CLPR and in that is folder for each clip which seems to contains 6 files - the video and audio data and 5 files of metadata. There is also some camera and overall metadata, and a folder called TAKR which seems to be used when clips span cards or when clips have to be split to stay within the FAT32 4GB limit.

Clip Browser uses the same structure, and will let you drag and drop clips between cards and other storage. It also combines clips which span multiple cards. Presumably it is creating or modifying the metadata as it does this. It also has the ability to add logging information to clips and to export them in a range of formats.

XDCAM Transfer takes clips from a BPAV folder (either the cards themselves or the folder created by Clip Browser), rewraps them for FCP and, if you have reached it by opening your project in FCP then File>Import>XDCAM Transfer, will put the clips into the bin. Most of the user metadata (status, name, comments) comes into FCP too, as do any essence (shot) marks.

My workflow is to create a hard drive folder for the project, then use Clip Browser to import the clips from the card. I review the clips, labelling them, adding logging notes, setting the status and putting in essence marks as needed (the number of characters available for the essence mark description is fairly limited). I then open FCP, create and save a new project then call up XDCAM Transfer. I select the project folder and it will pull in all the clips. I then filter for OK status, occasionally create subclips then import. The clips come over to the bin, with their names and with the essence marks converted to markers. Obviously there are backups taken - I've not mentioned them.

One gotcha - if you set the status of a clip on a card to OK, you then cannot erase it in the camera (without clearing its status).
__________________
Nick Wilson
www.cinescene.co.uk
Nick Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2009, 06:20 AM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 604
Thanks for that Nick, very much appreciated.

I am still having troubles hanging on to any data that I add. There is a “save changes” menu setting in Clip Transfer that always seems to be greyed out, whether or not this is relevant I do not know.

In the case of Browser if I do not click “update” I lose my typing as soon as I do something else, if I do click “update” I still lose the typing etc somewhere along the line.
Alastair Traill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2009, 07:31 AM   #9
Telecam Films
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 723
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Emerick View Post
I'm an old XDCAM Transfer (using PDW-350) user but a new Clip Browser user, having just bought a PMW-EX1R. I haven't found any tutorials or such about clip browser. Am I to understand that clip browser is not used to get clips into FCP? I have not found any easy way to do that just playing around with it. I did use XDCAM Transfer to get EX1R clips into FCP, albeit with some cryptic warnings in the process. What then is the main function of clip browser, besides viewing and de-banding (new in 2.6)?
Clip browser is mainly a cross-platform tool to view, annotate, copy and move XDCAM EX and XDCAM HD media. It also provides functionality to convert XDCAM EX clips to XDCAM HD .mxf files or other codecs (wmv, iphone, .....) using one of the two Main Concept Conversion Plug-Ins packs (demo versions included). New added features also provide a way to copy XDCAM EX clips to XDCAM discs in two ways:

- As data by retaining the XDCAM EX bpav folder structure and copying it to the "User Data" folder on a XDCAM disc
- As XDCAM HD clips by transcoding to XDCAM HD codec and rewrapping the files as mxf. When choosing this option, you edn up with a disc that looks exactly if it had be shot on a XDCAM HD camera with proxy folder, metadata and so on.

The EX Clip Browser is undergoing constant improvements and added features and you can expect it to become a central application for managing XDCAM media at large.

Also, there are great video and PDF tutotials describing various workflows with XDCAM HD, XDCAM EX and HDV on all commun editing systems. It's on Sony's web site:

Sony | Micro Site - HD Tapeless Workflow

Thierry.
__________________
Thierry Humeau, DoP
Télécam Films
www.telecamfilms.com
Thierry Humeau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2009, 09:37 AM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Northampton, UK
Posts: 259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair Traill View Post
In the case of Browser if I do not click “update” I lose my typing as soon as I do something else, if I do click “update” I still lose the typing etc somewhere along the line.
From my not very extensive testing, 'Update' on Clip Browser's general tab writes any changes to status, name 1 and 2, Creator and Description to the clip metadata. It remains greyed out until there is a difference between the metadata and these fields, ie, until you add or amend anything. As far as I can tell, changes to the index frame, essence marks, and in and out points update the metadata in real time.

You shouldn't be losing metadata so long as you hit 'Update'. However, with multiple copies of files and backup drives, it is easy to lose track of which is the master which has had comments added.
__________________
Nick Wilson
www.cinescene.co.uk
Nick Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2009, 03:19 PM   #11
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Melbourne, FL
Posts: 171
Glad i have AJA Ki Pro

Just so I am clear, there is no way to import clips directly into FCP from Clip Browser? That seems counterproductive to me. I just can't get my head around this process. I may trade this EX1R in for a JVC.
__________________
esquared
Eric Emerick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2009, 03:33 PM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Posts: 3,777
Actually I think EX method can be more productive. The BPAV can be handed to anyone as camera masters if you work with other people. Just try handing the .mov files to someone on Windows . . . That's why JVC offers MP4 (the stuff inside the BPAV) compatibility as an option.

With CalibratedSoftware plugin, FCP can handle the MP4 directly as well.
Calibrated{Q} MP4-EX Import for OSX
Craig Seeman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 17th, 2009, 04:40 PM   #13
New Boot
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alastair Traill View Post

I am still having troubles hanging on to any data that I add. There is a “save changes” menu setting in Clip Transfer that always seems to be greyed out, whether or not this is relevant I do not know.
Yes, this is very relevant. I am not sure why Save Changes is greyed out. Are you using a recent version of XDCAM Transfer? You should have version 2.11 (read two point eleven, not two point one one). Old versions (before 2.7?) only supported writing metadata to professional disc.

If not, Sony Canada can set you straight:

Sony of Canada E-support

When you enter metadata with XDCAM Transfer, you should see a black bullet appear next to the source. This means that there are unsaved changes. If you see an empty circle instead, it means that the changes cannot be saved for some reason (usually because the source is off-line or missing).
Daniel Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 18th, 2009, 06:15 PM   #14
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 604
Thanks Daniel,

Yes, I was mistaken about the version numbers, I read 2.11 as two point one one not two point eleven, so I am very grateful for that. I have now updated from 2.5 to 2.11 and also updated my Clip Browser to 2.6 both thanks to Sony Canada.

And yes the icon next to the source in XDCAM Transfer is an open circle not a black bullet. Now that I have updated programs I will check the accompanying updated manuals.
Alastair Traill is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Sony XAVC / XDCAM / NXCAM / AVCHD / HDV / DV Camera Systems > Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:57 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network