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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old January 1st, 2010, 12:23 PM   #16
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Good advice Alister,

The two I have looked at new are Fujinon ZA 22x7.6BERM Digi Power HD and Canon HJ 22ex7.6FB IRSE HDTV.

But I will take your advice and go to Abel in Jan and test out some lens options to see what I like.
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Old January 1st, 2010, 02:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
I am jealous of Paul. He has a new toy to play with, while I'm waiting for mine.
Me too. My distributor insists the camera is not shipping until mid January, and yet Abel Cine seems to have them on the floor. Are any available right now, or do you and Abel just have an inside line Paul?
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Old January 1st, 2010, 06:10 PM   #18
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I agree most of the benefits I have listed from the 350 go hand in hand with other full size broadcast camera.
Almost tucked away in Pauls list I note "Power up is quick 2.5 sec"

It's things like that that can make a world of difference in a professional camera, but amongst the endless talk of resolution and codecs they tend to be little spoken about. And that figure is good, very good - I'd tend to say about 5-6 seconds should be the absolute maximum, but the shorter the better. The worst I ever came across was about ten years ago, when a camera I won't name took all of 40 seconds from switching on to being record ready. It was discounted on those grounds without further testing........ :-)
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Old January 1st, 2010, 06:59 PM   #19
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Fast power up for many devices means that the device is merely in a very low power mode or sleep. This drains the battery a little. Is that preferable for most users? I'd like to see some menu options to allow control for fast power up at the expense of mild battery drain.
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Old January 1st, 2010, 07:22 PM   #20
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Quote: << "but it isn't the camera that makes you a professional, but the way you use it" >>

Amen to that sentiment. Every tool has it's place and usage - example; EX1 and F900R are my two main cameras. I have had shoulder level cameras since an Ikegami HL79 in 1979 through the original Betacams to Digibeta and now my second F900. I have loved their versatility and the general build quality has always been beyond reliable versus normal consumer products - even if they can be beasts to transport and use hand-held all day long. But now I've found that the angle of shooting that one gets from having a camera at eye-level vs the lower angle shooting at chest height like the EX1, creates a very different look and feel to the footage shot. I like this lowered angle a lot, and if you look at the height of a camera on most film sets you will notice it is rarely if ever at the eye-level height but rather usually closer to the chest high level that one generally has the EX1 positioned.

Now I almost exclusively use the EX1 for b-roll and the F900R for interviews because I'm happiest with b-roll shot at the lower height for dramatic reasons.

Also, on a trip to the Amazon basin last year I left the big camera at home and only used the EX1 so as to not even have to deal with the super-extreme humidity issues that an HDCAM tape transport would have created. No problems were encountered with the solid state EX1 recordings in the jungle.

So as Mr. Natural used to say; "for the right job, use the right tool".
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Old January 2nd, 2010, 03:16 AM   #21
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I think the first shipment of 350's that went out was very small, maybe only a few hundred world wide. I believe there is another larger shipment due sometime around the second week in Jan.
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Old January 2nd, 2010, 06:18 AM   #22
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Tom did you pre-order. I pre-ordered with Abel Cine Tech in October. Give them a call I know they had a few but I have no idea if they are gone, they did put a few in rental.

Gints that is not the case with the EX350, it powers up and is in normal power mode. Since it only draws 15-18w it is ready to go at 2.5 sec. I tested this more then once.

Alister your presets are nice I do like the second a little better then the first but I have only shot a few clips with each.

Abel does have a second shipment coming in a few weeks so give them a call. There canít be that many in the first shipment since mine is #12.
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Old January 2nd, 2010, 08:30 AM   #23
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There has been some concern with the EX camera line zoom control by rocker or top switch not being smooth at times. All of my zoom testing so far with the EX350 has been very smooth with a nice range of speed control.
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Old January 2nd, 2010, 01:32 PM   #24
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Played with the camera on Friday, it is impressive. Feels right and behaves as camera should.
The zoom on the stock lens behaves as a proper 2/3. Liked the fact that the body is not obscuring the view to the right. It is nice looking too.
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Old January 2nd, 2010, 04:38 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gints Klimanis View Post
Fast power up for many devices means that the device is merely in a very low power mode or sleep. This drains the battery a little. Is that preferable for most users?
Glints - I'm used to a DSR500, which takes about 5-6 seconds from "off" to record ready, a long time in some doorstep type situations, especially long waits when leaving the camera on is impractical for battery life.

I'd be very happy of a low power standby mode to cut that time down, but it sounds as if what Paul refers to is a real power off to power on time. For many people this is extremely significant, especially combined with the extremely low overall power consumption, which still allows powering of on-camera accessories with few issues.

The more I hear, the more impressed I am by this camera.
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Old January 2nd, 2010, 04:53 PM   #26
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Yes David I have hit record at three seconds and it records. It could be 2.75 sec but close enough.
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Old January 2nd, 2010, 09:49 PM   #27
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Trust me I am not trying to irritate anyone with this question, but I am at the point where I am buying either the PMW 350, or the RED.

Problems I see with the 350, 4:2:0 which means I have to buy a $3000 Nanoflash which I have used a lot and are absolutely fantastic, but it is still another $3k. I absolutely must have something wider than the stock lens, somewhere around a 25mm focal length. The stocker is about 35mm if I remember correctly. I sense I am going to be into a PMW 350 for about $28k depending on the extra lens I will need. Any good recommendations for that B-Mount (a prime is just fine)?. I am very interested to hear if the 350 actually can record more latitude than the EX1/3, as this is what interests me most about the RED.


The RED is expensive, and I know I am going to be out $30k, body $17,500, some Zeiss SLR Primes ~$6k, a small monitor, battery, cards. I ain't buying some $50k lens, and many a shooter is building a RED setup in the price range. Pros for the RED include at least 4:2:2 sampling, 2k @ 120fps which is absolutely a huge deal for me. If only the PMW 350 could shoot 1080p 60!!!!! I could probably live with that. The exposure latitude of the RED looks excellent from the footage I have seen. I am not too worried about the post situation, I can transcode the footage right to ProRes and just work with that. I never work natively on the EX footage anyway in FCP, so I am already transcoding all footage from the Canon 5D,7D, EX1/3, and other cameras to ProRes anyway.


For me this is a huge decision and I would not consider any other cameras other than these at this point. Another thing I have been told is that the RED takes almost 90 seconds to "boot". Talk about a downer..... I think the real problem is that I shoot about a little bit of everything, so both cameras have attributes that I really like.

Does anyone here that has ordered or bought a PMW 350 have an opinion about this? I am a bit torn and would love any imput.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 03:22 AM   #28
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I doubt there is much, if any difference in lattitude between the 350 and Red, there isn't much difference between an EX1/3 and Red. The Red will be slower to use, if your using primes simply changing focal length will take time as you swap lenses. Start-up is slow, as is the workflow. The workflow is not as widely supported as EX and simple things like instant playback of the final material in it's finished state can't be done. There is no quality advantage to be gained from transcoding EX material prior to the edit so the EX workflow can be fast and instant. With Avid and FCP (with Calibrated-Q) you can edit directly off the cards.

The question is do you need 4K (or 3K once it's been de-bayered) and just how important is 120fps? While many people are scraping together Red kits for $30k-$40k being realistic a really useable Red kit ends up costing a lot more. Are you making movies and shorts where you have time to set up the camera and shots or are you doing more run and gun or documentary style shooting. For the former Red would be a good choice, for the latter PMW-350. Ultimately I think a 350 could easily be used for everything from a short movie to wildlife to news. On the other hand I don't think a Red One would be much use for documentary or news. Yes the Red would have a resolution advantage for material going to 35mm or for cinema distribution but even a 350 is going to look pretty good on a big screen, especially if you use a NanoFlash. If your going to shoot progressive the difference between 4:2:0 and 4:2:2 is very small. The NanoFlash will really help with grading and post.
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 09:15 AM   #29
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Well I am happy with the EX1/3 and Nanoflash setup, so if the picture quality of the PMW350 is indeed better, that might be the camera.

I dont need 4k, but I could definitely use the 120fps. The only reason I would shoot 4k is to keep the wide angle primes at their correct focal length.

I think that my biggest problem with the PMW 350 is the lens selection, so many of the lenses that catch my eye are PL mount full frame. Is there a good and reasonably priced prime that would fit the PMW350 and give me a 25mm focal length that is undistorted?

With the RED it is easy to find these lenses
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Old January 3rd, 2010, 10:10 AM   #30
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Cris,

I owned a Red One last spring. After two weeks of testing with the camera it was not the camera for my business so I sold the camera. After that I looked at the PDW-700 and the Varicam line of cameras, which fit my business better. I waited for the EX350 and glad I did. You have to decide what camera works for you and your business. IMHO and I know I will be beat up for this. I have experience owning and trying the Red and it is for 35mm shooters who have the clients who NEED 35mm. Don’t buy the camera for the 120fps that only uses Ĺ of the sensor and the footage is not the quality of the EX line. The 120fps was the reason I purchased the camera and looking at that footage along side the EX1, which I also owned at the time with a CD XDR, the EX/XDR won.

You must have a lot of other heavy duty broadcast gear to only spend $30K. Since a decent tripod for the Red is in the $6-9K range and glass even if you use Birger mount with Canon EF L will put you out $12-15K. Then batteries, flash drives, extra TB for your NLE. I think you should not buy a Red unless you are ready to spend $40-45K. The same goes for the EX350 if you have heavy duty broadcast tripod great if not with all you will need from scratch the EX350 will be in the $30-35K range with only the stock lens. I know this because I have purchased both and all the needed gear. I will exceed the EX350 numbers when I have a prime for wide and a long zoom with optical stabilizer. But the camera will pay me back many times since it fits my business. The Red could do the same if it fits your business. Following me.

You say you prefer PL lens, well kick the cost above up an extra $20K for PL lens instead of Canon EF L glass and the Birger mount with remote. You can put a prime on the EX350 and that will give amazing footage.

Agree with Alister latitide on the EX line is great and testing yesterday the EX350 is amazing latitude and a big step up from the EX1/3.

Since you are in NY I would suggest you take a visit to Abel Cine Tech and check out both cameras. Then choose the one you like and RENT it. This may seem expensive but RENT for the day and go out and shoot in the city. RENT both for a day each and go out and shoot. This will be worth every penny and who know you might get some great footage. You will be very glad in the long run you did this, you will make a educated decision. The Red One could be for you or you might see the advantage of the EX350. But don’t buy on advertising it is not accurate.

Above is only my opinion and I think both cameras have their place in the business. You just need to decide which one you will be happy with and will make money for your business while you enjoy the process. I hope is some small way this helps.
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