To matte box or not?
 

This coming year I may have a few jobs coming up where outside shooting in the sun (providing we get some!) is the name of the game.

My colleague, and I, are looking into purchasing a matte box and filters. Just wondered how many of you use a matte box and do you find them invaluable?? Are they essential to really improve the quality of your output?

Many thanks

Darren
hangmanmedia - [video.concept.production]

This is a very good question. I can bet that most of (even "serious") hobbyists mainly use matte boxes to make their cameras look more pro... Several things should be considered, such as:

- with a 35mm adapter and prime lenses, using a matte box for holding filters (instead of buying those same filters in all different sizes for all these lenses) is essential

- controlling stray light (the main purpose of a matte box) can be tricky. In my experience, if I put ANY 4x5.65" filter into my matte box but don't use the french flag, I'm getting horrible reflections of the camera lens in the filter, bouncing back and being recorded over the picture. Using the upper brow and side wings can get rid of it, but is somewhat impractical for run and gun shooting.

Just my $ 0.02.

Hi Darren

Contrary to other opinions, I find for outdoor subjects a matte box really useful.... but if I don't need it I don't use it.... For most news stories, indoor stuff and interviews it serves no purpose.

I have no interest in making my camera look better...because it does make the camera more bulky and adds even more weight to the front end.

What it does do very nicely is allow me to use polarizer, and ND grads to get a much nicer look to a scenic, outdoors shot... Alos I find the French flag makes a big difference in bright sun to shade the lens. Its like wearing a peaked cap. It drastically reduces the flare that all these small cameras are succeptible to.

I use a model made by TLS called the Kestrel... which is well made light weight and not too expensive, at just under 300 quid.
My filters are either Schneider or Tiffen.

Voilà... I got mine from Prokit in Chiswick, but TLS does sell direct I believe.. try a google search.

regards
Gareth

Absolutely - ever since I bought my RR mattebox, I'm using it with an ND grad filter when out of my studio; frankly I can't imagine shooting against bright cloudy without it...

I use a matte box about 10% of the time.

It is usually not needed inside. We use flags on light stands inside.

Mattebox and grad etc filters can be very useful outside. But these days I do a lot of that in Post. I can build any filter I want in PSD any special shape and color, and then apply it with varying opacity in M100 in real time. Love it!

I make small flags that velcro onto the lens shade of the camera. This works very well to control flare and is very portable.

I will probably make those "mini-flag kits" available on my website soon.

EX1 Stronger Plates

Thanks guys, I'm in two minds now. The box I was considering was the Chrosziel CMB-R20 Sunshade for Sony PMW-EX1 & EX3.

I'd imaging it would be hard to replicate grad filters in post effectively and convincingly!

Are you running and gunning or will you be operating with full tripod set up? About 60% of my stuff is hand held and I can't imagine having a MB hanging off the front of my camera.

Filtration is very important. But keep in mind you can buy 77mm screw in filters for your EX1/3 lens and they're likely to be less expensive then 4x4 filter for a matte box. When I need a circ polarized I just screw it one and provide glare protection by holding a piece of cardboard in the correct spot.

Hi there
All my stuff is run & gun... with naturally some tripod for the scenics... the matte box I mention is fine hand held..

The problem with screw on filters is that if you change cameras or have more than one with different screw threads you need more than one set of filters... My last three cameras have all had different front element threads... yet my 4x4 filters cover the lot...

cheers
Gareth

depending on which camera you are using you'll need to make sure the matte box clears the mic and monitor, especially on the EX 1. Mounting can involve rails, plates and adapters that may end up costing as much as the box itself. Then you have to carry it all while running around shooting.
That said, when you need to control lens flare, stack filters, rotate a polarizer or use a grad it makes thing real easy.
If you do buy one I suggest getting something that you'll be able to use on other cameras down the road. The Redrock Micro is huge, but it has everything you could want and is a bargain compared to many others, but you'll need rails and it bumps up against the EX1 mic/monitor .
If you're using it with a 35mm adapter remember the donuts, controling the reflections on the back of the filter is impossible unless you drape everything and look like Matthew Brady working a view camera.

I will be getting the Arri MMB-1 for my EX1, which is about $1500 and the ND's are under $200 each. I played with one at Abel Cine and it didn't add too much weight. Arri states that it can be used with or without rails.

I recently read about a DP on a feature film stating that the french flag did help indoors with overhead flouros.

Darren,

a Chrosziel MB lives on our EX3 24/7. I find that besides flare control it helps my shoot at a 2.8-4 f stop with consistency. I often find myself using an ND3 or a SoftFX, or both during interviews. I consider the mattebox an essential part of the EX3 pkg.

Gareth pretty much summed up what I would have said in terms of use. I almost bought a TLS mattebox as Gareth did as well but managed to score a Chrosziel off Craigslist at a decent price.

Depending on the mattebox you get you might have a rotating 4x4 stage for the polarizer and a larger 4"x5.650" stage requiring more expensive filters due to their size. Keep that in mind when you are chosing your mattebox. The cost of filters can add up quickly but all you really need to start out is a circular pola(rizer) and an ND set or at least an ND 3 (you can use the internal NDs until you can afford a full set (if money is an issue).

Andrew and others: I was told to get a Linear Polarizer for the Arri MB but I always thought it should be Circular.

What say you?

There has been a fair amount of (heated) discussion here about the topic of which polarizer to use over the past year. The evidence that was laid out pointed strongly towards using a circular polarizer with the EX cameras. I cannot remember the thread but a search would pin it down.

Yes - a lot of filter effects can be mimic in post. However, in the case of ND grad filter, this might not apply; having the bright clouds background blown out, and/or underexposed foreground with noise/low detail, cannot be corrected...

Pretty much like everyone else has already said ( I have a Vocas with one rotating and one not) for polariser, ND grads, and the flag. I work on news and features and it's on maybe 25% of the time - but one thing I haven't seen mentioned: rain. If it's raining and I'm outdoors, the matte box is on, and the flag is up! Invaluable for keeping rain off the lens unless you're in a good breeze as well. Moving between shots and put the flag down. Love it.

HTH

I agree. I use mine to keep rain off the lens a lot. Must get around to buying a Spintec!

I have an Arri MMB-1. It is a great mattebox. I use it on my PDW-700, my EX-3, My EX-3 with Letus and my 5D2.

I went with Arri because it is so versatile and well made.

By being able to go on so many different cameras easily, it gives me options.

On the EX-3 I will often just use a screw in Pola.

But, of course depending on the shoot and the shots being able to put the mattebox on is great. Not just for flare control, but for adding filters also.

(Pola's must be circular for the EX3).


Ben Ruffell

I'm about to buy a Chrosz MB for my z1(sorry if im in your exthread) and i'm living the same worries. Which filters should i buy for my MB?

Yeah I forgot the rain protection.. watch out for the "ding, ding" of the rain drops in that get picked up by the mic though...

As to which filters... I find by far and a way the two or three most used filters are ND grads, and a polarizer. Once you got those you're unlikely to need much else on 90% of shoots.

Cheers
Gareth

Spintec ???
 

What is a spintec and do you have a link?

Spintec is a rain deflector.

They are very very useful sometimes.

They add noise and weight.... but they stop water drops!

There are a few brands out there. Some very expensive.

OK, Just to add some discussion points, I'm also in the market for a mattebox for my EX-1r. Considering the Chroziel CRB-R20 for the starting point price, and the Arri MMb-1 . The Chroziel has two rotating filter holders, the Arri just 1. The Chroziel loads from the top or bottom, the Arri from the side. I will be involved in a shoot in which we will be shooting a lot outdoors. Sunrises & sundowns are in the list of shots. When using grad filters and loading from the side(ARRI) how do you deal with a horizon that is not perfectly centered? I know tilt up or down! :) Can you insert a grad from top or bottom( Chroziel) and put the grad filter where you need it or will it show the edge? If you had to add a polarizer to the mix, is having two rotating filter holders a better choice or am I just overthinking this?

any ideas out there are welcomed,
Victor

I use a 138mm pola in the rear that rotates.

Solid ND in one tray if required.

A SE ND Grad sometimes. 4x5.65. Sure, I cant raise or lower it - sometimes a pain - but mostly thats fine as I would need a bigger filter anyway, and I can usually make it work. SE lets me hide the line easier than a HE grad.

Hardly ever need to rotate one of the trays.

Personally I have always found Chrosziel matteboxes to be a bit crap and they always fall apart. I wouldn't own one.

You will know when you need one.

I was shooting new buildings in bright sunlight wishing I had a polariser and more ND.

Went out and bought the Genus which fits under the mic bridge of the EX1 whilst allowing one rotating and one fixed stage. It also fits the Century 0.6 wangle. Doesn't need rails if you're going to be careful. The package I bought has ring, Flag and five filters for the cost of three filters. Pola, ND Grad and ND are most useful, yet to use Pro Mist in earnest.

Went to shoot interviews in South Africa, didn't need it - interviewees didn't like it. Even shooting GVs, not enough time to deal with its 'fiddle'. Took it on another European shoot, never got used. Its not exactly Run and Gun, but the Matte Box just turns everything into a shoot with setups and strikes and twiddle time, and it just so happens that my work doesn't seem to allow for that.

Since then, it has been universally unpopular with producers and interviewees, and I've even considered selling it.

But come Spring, doing those Ext GVs or Beauty shots, I know I'll be thanking my lucky stars that I've got it. Even if it ends up on the front of a Canon 7D.

Hi Victor,

I have the Arri and quite love it. Beautiful build quality, stays on my EX3 all the time.
Sure you can adjust the horizon; you will find that there are two types of 4x5,65 grads, horizontal and vertical. Get a vertical, "portrait", one; insert it into the rotating stage, turn 90 degrees and off you go :-)

-mika-