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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old February 4th, 2010, 07:56 AM   #1
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PP Recipes Sticky Thread

With 517 posts, the "Picture Profile Recipes Sticky Thread" is no longer very useful as finding an actual post that has a recipe in it is pretty hard to do. Would anyone be interested in me pursuing a new sticky with the mod that only has posts with actual recipes? The reason I ask is it would be a bunch of work to do and if there's no interest I won't pursue it. What say you EX community??
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Old February 4th, 2010, 08:24 AM   #2
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I would be very interested

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Old February 4th, 2010, 09:03 AM   #3
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Me too. I like what I've been using the past two years, but wouldn't mind mixing it up. Thanks!
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Old February 4th, 2010, 12:18 PM   #4
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That would be great! Thank you in advance!
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Old February 4th, 2010, 12:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick Haensler View Post
With 517 posts, the "Picture Profile Recipes Sticky Thread" is no longer very useful as finding an actual post that has a recipe in it is pretty hard to do. Would anyone be interested in me pursuing a new sticky with the mod that only has posts with actual recipes? The reason I ask is it would be a bunch of work to do and if there's no interest I won't pursue it. What say you EX community??
It's a recurring problem.
IMO, anyone who takes the time to reorganize & post the useful material would be hailed as a DV Info hero.
Thanks
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Old February 4th, 2010, 12:44 PM   #6
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That would rock.
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B-Scene Films
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Old February 4th, 2010, 03:17 PM   #7
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that would be great!
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Old February 4th, 2010, 04:00 PM   #8
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A DVInfo hero indeed, I vote please.
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Old February 4th, 2010, 06:10 PM   #9
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With all the positive response and my ego wanting to be elevated to "Hero" status, I have contacted Chris Hurd(Thee Grand Poobah) to see how to go about this. Stay tuned and thanks for the response. I had a feeling I wasn't the only one frustrated with that thread.
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Old February 5th, 2010, 02:50 AM   #10
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and just in case you hesitate, I add a vote for hero status.
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Old February 5th, 2010, 02:58 AM   #11
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Here is what I copied after reading the sticky thread completely a few days ago. This may not be everything what is important for everybody, but this is, what was important for me. This is not sorted, cleaned or well presented - just collecting infos.

Enjoy.

Quote:
Doug Jensens Training video:

Matrix ON -High Sat, Level 3, Phase and r-g=0
Gamma CINE4
Black -3
Black Gamma -2
Low Key SAT = 0
Detail OFF

-3db gain
Other items not mentioned were off or default


************************************************

Bill Ravens Picture profile Recipe TC2
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...tml#post815954

Matrix ...............on
Select................hisat
Level..................0
Phase.................-5
R-G...................75
R-B...................0
G-R...................-18
G-B...................-32
B-R...................-27
B-G...................13



Gamma Level..............-40
Gamma Select.............CINE1
Black..........................-12
Black Gamma..............0

I dropped the CINE1 gamma levels from 0 to -40 to get the middle gray values at 50% IRE on the WFM. The STD3 profile was much closer. I had to drop the LEVELS to -15 to get middle gray at 50%. I was set at a fixed f/4.0 and 1/60 sec exposure for my tests. Knowing that, if one stays with the CINE1 preset, my recommendation is that you experiment with different GAMMA LEVELS, varying between 0 and -40, depending on what suits you for varying light conditions.

The other CINE presets were quite surprising at how MUCH they stretched the blacks and compressed the hi-lights. Having seen that, I doubt I'll use them much.

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...tml#post819353
Gamma Level.............. 0 (changed from -40)
this will probaby help the crushed blacks. I noticed the blacks were a bit crushed in your last -40 gamma setting. Well, at least in low light.
You lose a little dynamic range, but, it takes less CCing in post. And selecting a CINE1, 3,or 4 setting, depending on how much black stretch you want/need.

Once again, please set your white balance before using.
--> Bill, thanks so much for the profile, it looks pretty good. Especially outside since I had a nice sunny day
--> Bill your settings seem to give the best image I have seen so far!
--> This seems to work good in bright light.

************************************************

Doug Jensen settings for EX1
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...tml#post976293

MATRIX:

SETTING: ON
SELECT: HIGH SAT
LEVEL: 0
PHASE: 0
R-G: 0
R-B: 0
G-R: 0
G-B: 0
B-R: 0
B-G: 0

COLOR CORRECTION:

SETTING: OFF
AREA DETECTION
AREA INDICATION: OFF
TARGET PHASE: 130
TARGET WIDTH: 40
LEVEL: 0

WHITE:

OFFSET WHITE: OFF
OFFSET: 0
OFFSET: 0
OFFSET: 0
PRESET WHITE: 5600

DETAIL:

SETTING: ON
LEVEL: 0
FREQUENCY: 0
CRISPENING: 0
H/V RATIO: 0
WHITE LIMITER: 0
BLACK LIMITER: 0
V DTL CREATION: Y
KNEE APT LEVEL: 0

SKIN TONE DETAIL:

SETTING: OFF
LEVE: 0
AREA DETECTION
AREA INDICATION: OFF
SATURATION: 0
PHASE: 130
WIDTH: 40

KNEE:

NOTHING

GAMMA:

LEVEL: 0
SELECT: CINE4

BLACK: -3
BLACK GAMMA: -2
LOW KEY SAT: 0


Conclusion:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...ml#post1031801
I've changed it slightly by setting BLACK to -2. No big deal. :)

MATRIX: HIGH SAT
PRESET WHITE: (what ever you want it to be for your shooting conditions)
GAMMA: CINE4
BLACK: -3
BLACK GAMMA: -2

Bill 1 Jahr earlier:
I still use a mix of TC2 with Black around -8. I prefer STD1 because it gives me the best latitude in post. If the scene is outdoors, in sunlight, STD1 blows out easily and I switch to Cine1 or cine4.

I'm experimenting with a CINEMA setting instead of HISAT. New color matrix.

************************************************

Thomas William Alexander
Indoor preset
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...tml#post969865

I put Gamma level at -40 and CIN setting to CIN2.
With light less then 60W you might want to set the CIN setting to CIN3.

Matrix = Cinema
Level -40
Phase +20
RG -30
RB +30
GR +75
GB -60
BR +99
BG +80

White = 2900
Skin tone = Off
Black -20
Black Gamma -30

************************************************

IMPORTANT NOTICES regarding details:

Simon Wyndham
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...tml#post984986

For a filmic look you can turn the detail off, but this doesn't help very much with the EX series because unlike cameras such as the F900 you cannot turn the detail off while leaving the Aperture correction on.

On most of Sony's full size cameras you can do this. Turning the detail off gets rid of edge enhancement across the board. But by tuning the Aperture (high frequency) detail you can get really fine adjustments that can mimic different film types much more closely.

This is not possible with the EX series of cameras though because they only have a broad detail adjustment with no separate Aperture Correction adjustment.

For this reason I would not recommend turning the detail totally off on the EX cameras. Instead I would suggest reducing the detail, for example to -20, and then adjusting the Frequency setting to, for example +40. The Frequency setting adjusts the coarseness, or width, of the edge enhancement. The higher the setting the finer and more subtle the effect is.

So it is possible to keep the edge enhancement but stop it from being intrusive. For documentary you may want slightly more enhancement than you would for a 'filmic' style. Turning the detail off can make things look a little too '8mm cine camera' to me.

One other tip I can give is that for low light shots with the gain kicked and shadow areas, you may want to experiment with the crispening function. This function is also useful when used in conjunction with the detail adjustment as it will not only allow you to fine tune the detail enhancement to avoid enhancing the noise, but it will also allow you to further fine tune the parts of the picture you would like enhanced of those that you do not.

Comment by Bill Ravens:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...tml#post954980

As far as color goes, DETAIL doesn't matter. Use it at your discretion. The contemporary knowledge is that DETAIL ON/LEVEL 0 adds sharpening. DETAIL OFF and LEVEL-40 is approximately no sharpening.


Comment by Bill Ravens:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...tml#post985117

My issue with DETAIL ON is one few people will admit to. With detail on, as you point out, Tom, halos begin to form. No matter how much you suppress the halos, they're still part of the image. Essentially, this is mosquito noise which pushes the compression algorithms in the camera encoder really hard. Encoding halos sucks up bandwidth that would otherwise be available for image information. All this is most apparent when downrezzing to DV resolutions in line twitter and image softness.

And so, I'm experimenting to see what happens with Detail ON at -20 to -40, which is for all intents and purposes, OFF; and frequency turned up as Symon suggests


Answer by Alister Chapman:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...tml#post985655

I normally run detail at -10 or -15 with frequency at +40 and crispening at -10. If shooting in low light I have detail at -25 and crispening at +40 which helps reduce overall noise when using gain

************************************************

Bill Ravens Latest "True Color"
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...tml#post954984

MATRIX ON
SELECT HISAT
LEVEL 0
PHASE -5
R-G +75
R-B 0
G-R -18
G-B -32
B-R -27
B-G +13
OFFSET WHITE OFF
DETAIL ON
GAMMA LEVEL 0
GAMMA SELECT CINE 1/3/4
BLACK -4
BLACK GAMMA 0
SKIN TONE DETAIL OFF
LOW KEY SAT 0


************************************************


Check out post #120 on page 8 and download Bill Ravens recipes. Move them onto your sxs card (after renaming Bills file as he outlines) and import them onto your EX1 per the manual (page79 Retrieving the set Up File).

Then check out post #262 for the key details on how to use them. Oh yes, and remember to white balance and always wear clean underwear :)

************************************************

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...ml#post1474850
Alister Chapman Detail PMW350:
All other settings are default, except Gamma HG 4.

Detail Level -16
H/V Ratio +20
Frequency +35
White Limit +35
Black Limit +20

************************************************
Oliver Neubert
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...ml#post1455035

I do a lot of contemporary dance videos. horrible contrast range for video, hot spotlights, dark curtains and a lot of action in the dark parts of the stage.
I use 2-3 cameras all set to the following setting which I call CINEflat:

0 dB
if possible -3 if absolutely necessary +6 (but never ever more than that)

Matrix on
select Cinema
Level / Phase / R-G all 0

CC off

Offset White off
preset white 3200 (although on stages with modern lights or rock concerts I shoot with 5600)

Gamma Level 0
Select: Cine4

Black Gamma + 25 !!

It is quite a simple profile, but I am happy with the results.
Aperture -30

I found that using +25 in the black gamma gives me the steps in the blacks that I need. (Dark scenes with dancers wearing black in front of a black curtain...) If I wish to crush the black later I still can in post, but if I record it crushed it I can't get the definition back without running into serious noise issues.
************************************************
************************************************

EX1R: SD
Alister Chapman
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...ml#post1479470

I did some work on picture profiles for SD on the EX1R. This profile was designed to match an older 2/3" SD cameras:

Matrix; cinema, level +8

SD Detail Level +25, Frequency -65, crispening +10, White limit +50, black limit +55

Knee 90, Gamma: Std 2 level +5, Black Gamma +10

This profile gives some very hard detail correction, but the idea is to mimic an older SD camera that would also have similar strong detail correction. If the detail level is too high for your tastes reduce it to +8. If you would like more colour raise the Matrix level to +20 to +30.
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Old February 5th, 2010, 06:42 AM   #12
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I believe we have a new hero. Thanks a million Mark. I really didn't need the iconic stature, just the info. You rock!!
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Old February 5th, 2010, 09:44 AM   #13
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Both Marcus and Mick will get my vote when running for president...
Thanks a lot !!
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Old February 5th, 2010, 11:41 AM   #14
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Two days ago I organized most of the picture profile material into MS One Note

I spent an entire day earlier this week organizing the picture profile materials into MS One Note. My materials include:

1. Bill Raven's suggestions - not just the final suggestions, but the evolution of the discussion

2. Doug Jensens profiles

3. Philip Blooms Profiles

4. The real color profiles

5. Profiles from several other people

6. Adam Wilts comments

7. Abel Cine Tech profiles matching the EX 1 to Hvx200/Hpx170

8. A sony worksheet on profiles

9. The BBC white paper on the EX1/3 & their profiles

10 A discussion regarding sharpening & detail settings, and some other materials.

I think it would take no more than an hour to drag and drop those materials from one note into a post. It would be significantly longer than Markus' summary, however it would contain more material and the pertinent portions of the history of how some of the final profiles were obtained - including some approaches which were tried and rejected. It also includes some materials which appear on this site, but not in the thread.

Any interest in my posting it. It won't be short, but it will be much shorter than the thread - and almost as complete.
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Old February 5th, 2010, 11:56 AM   #15
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Another interesting thought would be a Google Doc Spreadsheet with these settings kept in there, shared with the community but owned by one or two people in case they want to add on over time. You could include links to specific posts for each profile where needed, etc. Also, you can see the ability to track changes...
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