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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old March 24th, 2010, 03:41 PM   #1
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Parallel Recording with the EX-1r and Nano Flash

Ok, guys, it’s my first time posting so take it easy on me! I have traded up from the Sony PD150 to the EX-1r and am trying to absorb a LOT of information. I have a big project coming up that will need to be delivered in HD and in SD on disks. The event is a dog show, held in an indoor arena – mostly with the lights on and little motion. However, as the dogs each enter the ring, the lights will be off and each dog followed with a spot light during their introduction. I will have the EX-r and access to a Nano Flash, with the goal of recording full 1920 X 1080 on one and either 1280 X 720 slo-mo on the other, or SD. The goal is to be able to output a final project to DVD, without losing a lot of the HD quality in down-conversion, and to Blu-Ray. I edit with Adobe Premiere CS4 and the Matrox RT-X2 card (max 1440 HDV).

Questions:

Which format would you recommend recording directly to the SxS cards and which format to the Nano Flash? (size, frame and bit-rate)

Is there a good down-conversion method if I record the full 1920 X 1080 to one and slo-mo 1280 X 720 to another? (thus not recording SD) I would really like to over-crank on one recording device (to be able to have good slo-mo of the dogs when they are moving) but a higher priority would be getting clean footage to output to DVD. If I could do both, it would be great.

I know there will be some flash banding, especially on the “lights-out” portion of the event. What is the best way to minimize this, either with the camera itself or the Nano? What settings are best for motion, considering the low-light portion of the program?

Any particular picture profile to use for such an event? I am using the Vortex recommendations, as well as Bill Raven’s.

I appreciate your help!
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Old March 24th, 2010, 10:45 PM   #2
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Im sorry if I am misunderstanding your situation or if I have my facts wrong about the Nano, but I have used one quite a bit and here is my 2 cents.

If I am understanding you correctly you want to record these two different frame sizes and rates with the one camera (EX1R)? You dont really setup the recording frame size and rate for the Nano, it takes the video stream off the SDI and records it at your requested bitrate. So you can't have the EX1 setup to record 720/60 to the SXS and the Nano recording 1080p/29.97 off the SDI port of the same camera at the same time. Once you switch that EX1 to 720/60, that is what is coming off the SDI feed as well. And remember to turn off (on the EX1) the shooting data getting sent over SDI!.

That Nano device is remarkable, so enjoy
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Old March 25th, 2010, 09:07 AM   #3
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Hi Sherry,

In my view, you are setting your self up for a set of shoots that are way too complicated in terms of managing the settings for all that gear.

You should know that slomo on the nanoFlash is presently functional ONLY on the beta firmware and there are some issues it (not a lot).

The best place to post stuff about the nanoFlash is in the nanoFlash forum. Many of the nanoFlash users that post are Sony EX users including myself. You will get the kind of traffic for the answers you need on the nanoFlash in that forum.

There are other picture profiles you should consider that veer towards a more neutral settting. Alister Chapman I believe has some picture profile(s) up. He is a big fan of "doing it in post" and if you want a Panasonic look you should look up Andy Shipsides picture profiles. I believe they are on page 34 (or thereabouts) in that thread.

If you are going to use Bill Ravens picture profiles I would strongly suggest doing a bunch of test shoots in similar conditions to your paying gig. Like the Panasonic picture profiles, they are idiosyncratic and may be the kind of thing you would want to do in post.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 09:20 AM   #4
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Thanks! I'll check out the Nano forum, too. Any ideas on down-conversion question? I want to have good HD footage to archive but for now, will deliver mostly in SD. I edit in Premiere CS4 with the Matrox RT-X2.
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Old March 25th, 2010, 06:47 PM   #5
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You can record in SD to the nanoFlash with quality that is very close to BetaCam. You set your HD-SDI to issue an SD signal, set your nano to record in SD, do a few other settings to get the camera to communicate properly to the nanoFlash and you are set.

You can download the nanoFlash manual from the Convergent Design site and do some jonesin' around the NanoFlash forum mentioned above. Most of your answers will be found there in previous posts. The search engine is your friend.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 04:51 AM   #6
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I would record 720x1280 in the one cam at 60i , from what i am seeing here and hearing in the forum this will convert easily to SD 60i , you will still have full ntsc motion stuff.

i would record 720x1280 in the other cam at 60p, only for doing slow mo . i would not go overcrank lose my audio or mess with that stuff, as long as i had the nano recording that.

i would record BOTH in 60i or 60p ONLY if i was not planning specifically on one being only a slow mo camera. or i thought that i would need footage from either. (which you could certannly need if you havent done this before)

preferably you would back up both of the cameras with the same resolution and frame rate as they are shooting in.

if there was only 1 Nano, i would put it on the slow mo camera and run it at 2x compression rates, or about 50-100, and use that for the slow mo. because dog shows can take WEEKS :-) i would probably choose 50.

then convert the whole rack over into SD DV before starting editing, using virtual dub, changing the frame rate on the SLOW MO 60p to 30FPS and outputting 60i.

but that is only an semi tested idea. I would have 2 cameras with usable footage, one with proper 60i motion and less compression, one with slow mo possible footage without many losses, the slow mo could be used as backup footage if something goes wrong, the whole thing would be mass converted, so editing was fast, and Audio would exisit on both if something goes wrong.
it will cover fast action with full interlace , beings you dont output 60p DVDs , having it interlaced original will keep one thing from changing.
The nano slow motion footage will have the less compressed higher quantity of frame rate , and therfore similar compression (at 2x data) as the 60i (which really is still 30fps)

and you will still have the original HD stuff to make next years Dog Show commertial, to sell to the association or the building when they want to attact more viewers .

of course if you tried to do what i just said, instead of what you already KNOW, and didnt know how to deal with what you had after you got it, or while you were there, then you certannly wouldnt want to try, what i would try. because i can barely graps what i just wrote myself :-)
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Last edited by Marty Welk; March 26th, 2010 at 05:56 AM.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 05:17 AM   #7
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Profiles, at the least make sure you knee down, from like 80% knee start point, at a 50% ramp. keep the rest of the profile normal and make sure you set the lighting temp right.
when the spotlight hits, the Color WILL change. the chances that whatever lighting they start with, magically matches the arc or zenon or whatever in a manually operated spot is very slim. Lighting will probably be mercury, or florescent, but hopefully not sodium, of course could also be incan in older places.
the correct choise of color temps would nudge a bit twards the spotlight temps, without falling out to far from ambient temps. so when the spotlight hits it IS a different color , but not so badly as to colorize everything.

us the TLCS(sp) spotlight, and ramp your AE down all the way to its 1 or 1.5 or whatever it is.
probably leave the spotlight setting on the whole time.
this will Barely cover the lighting AUTO, then totally prepare for a mauel iris setting ANYWAYS.

you probably wont want to depend on the auto focus, because it will burn you in 3 ways i can think of there, so if you can squeeze out a AUTO "exposure" iris thing, and concentrate on the focus with one hand and the zoom with the other, it would be a start.

that is how i percieve it, but when you get there, everything changes. and the information i provided might be only a single tip there somewhere.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 08:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marty Welk View Post
I would record 720x1280 in the one cam at 60i , from what i am seeing here and hearing in the forum this will convert easily to SD 60i , you will still have full ntsc motion stuff.
No - 720 doesn't exist in an interlaced form, 720 as a format is ALWAYS progressive, so in this case you're talking about 720p/60. That is a good starting place to downconvert to SD from though, as you can derive each SD field from a discrete corresponding HD frame. (No need to de-interlace.) If 1080p/50 was an option, it would be better still, at least as far as keeping for future use.

All this assumes you want "smooth motion" as opposed to "film look" or "jerky motion". If the latter is actually wanted, best to go with 1080p/25. (Or rather p/24 or p/30 in 60Hz areas.)
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