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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
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Old May 6th, 2010, 06:04 AM   #1
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should the image be as sharp on componet as HDMI?

I am buying today an HDMI cable, but yesterday I hooked up my new EX1r to my Bravia 720 HD using the component video cable and I wasn't very pleased...
I had shot some indoor clips with medium to low light: the low light capabilities of the EX1r are fabulous, but the footage looked pretty grainy and lacked the WOW factor I was expecting, so to speak

I am sure this depends but the fact I need to learn how to use the new camcorder, but I certainly wasn't blow away....

I hope this depends at least a bit by the connection?
what is your favourite way to review the clips on an HD tv?
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Old May 6th, 2010, 06:31 AM   #2
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The EX1/3 cameras ARE noisy. Period.

On both digital (SDI, HDMI), and Component (the latter depending a bit on the cables quality, but usually less noisy due to the cable acting as a filter).

Frankly, I'd say this is their only fault/disadvantage. There are ways to combat the noise with PPs.

If you found it on a 720 monitor, be prepared to see even more noise in FullHD.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 07:44 AM   #3
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ok...not exactly the response i was waiting for....but thanks

what ways do you suggest to reduce noise?
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Old May 6th, 2010, 09:16 AM   #4
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Frederico,

You are a new owner of the camera, so I would suggest searching a lot in this forum and looking at the scene file thread. This camera can produce stunning images but only after the settings are set properly.

To answer your initial question, component is an analogue signal. So by its nature it will be a "version" of the digital image which will have some extra noise and a little loss of detail.

I don't find this camera to be noisy. Especially compared to some Panasonic cameras in this price range.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 09:57 AM   #5
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sure thing Tim
I just copied and pasted almost the entire sticky about PPs : )

it's just that I was a little surprised about the first results on screen... but then again, as you rightly say I just need to learn how to use it
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Old May 6th, 2010, 10:14 AM   #6
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Keep in mind that if you are shooting 1080 and displaying on a 720 raster panel, there is some scaling that will happen to make it fit, and it will likely be a little ugly.

Unfortunately the analog to digital conversion in many panels is also pretty dicey...

HDMI should definitely help, but also sending the same resolution as the panel natively displays makes a difference.
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Old May 6th, 2010, 03:53 PM   #7
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i tried again and I have to say the HDMI makes A LOT of difference on my bravia....no comparison

i also tried all the different settings, and for some reason the one I like best is the 1080X1440 50i

1920 looks nice but there's somethinh about the 1440 setting that makes it better....maybe has to do with the fact that my HDTV is 720

i also tried the 720 settings, and I like them but you start seeing the lower resolution

i also tried a LOT of picture profiles, and I was very happy with Doug's preset, Philip, and one low light i found on vimeo (detail -20, gamma STD4, black gamma -10, low key sat +10)

anyone is using the 1440 setting?
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Old May 6th, 2010, 04:23 PM   #8
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and i can only add that the low light capabilities of the EX1r are AMAZING! it blows everything I had seen before out of the window

the noise is very low especially with the right settings

i notice the noise becomes a problem at 12 but I keep the 3 settings at -3, +3 and +9
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Old May 7th, 2010, 04:24 AM   #9
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Federico,

You have probably noticed the very long thread on Picture Profiles, which is a sticky on this forum. You will need some time going through all the information contained there, but to help you with the noise several rules should be observed:

1. Even though the EX1/3 cameras are indeed great in low light, you should try and use as much light as only possible to avoid necessity of engaging gain (BTW. always keep it in Manual so that you can control it)

2. You will notice that some gamma curves (Std1, Cine1) have a tendency to produce more noisy picture that others - try to avoid them when lots of large, single color areas would fall into low-light area in your scenes

3. When choosing your Detail settings, try not to further exaggerate noise with inappropriate use of Crispening and alike (you might try and find detail-related settings discussion elsewhere on the forum; for instance it has been discussed in some thread on the PMW-350 camera).
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Old May 7th, 2010, 12:41 PM   #10
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There shouldn't be any difference with the 1440 and 1920 modes in terms of noise. I'm not sure why you are seeing a difference because the HDMI and component output will always be 1920x1080 even if the camera is set to 1440.

The 1440 35Mb/s mode does have a slightly lower compression ratio than the 1920 35Mb/s modes, but I would be surprised if you can see the difference in first generation footage.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 05:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post

The 1440 35Mb/s mode does have a slightly lower compression ratio than the 1920 35Mb/s modes, but I would be surprised if you can see the difference in first generation footage.

1440 35Mb/s? On an EX1?
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Old May 7th, 2010, 06:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Kolb View Post
1440 35Mb/s? On an EX1?
We are talking EX1r, see original post.
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Old May 7th, 2010, 07:02 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Rowe View Post
We are talking EX1r, see original post.
I stand corrected. This is a feature I wasn't even aware of...


Thanks
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Old May 8th, 2010, 02:04 AM   #14
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The EX1R has a 1440 35Mb/s VBR mode that is compatible with the optical disc XDCAM HD and XDCAM HD422 cameras. This allows you to write this file to an optical disc as a video clip (as opposed to a user data file) without any transcoding. If I remember the numbers right the compression ratio for this is about 16:1 compared to the 21:1 of regular XDCAM EX so theoretically there may be some advantage to this mode in multi-generation work, but I haven't tested this. I suspect the re-scaling from 1440 to 1920 will negate any compression ratio advantage.
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Old May 9th, 2010, 12:06 AM   #15
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Is the EX-1 noisy? Compared to what? I think in its class its pretty damn good. Compared to the HVX200 which was its competitor at one time it was light years quieter.
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