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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old June 8th, 2010, 09:44 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Luben Izov View Post
Hello Doug,
I understand completely the way your work-flow is and I trust you wouldn't make a mistake. Comon, how many years are behind you doing that kind of work!?!
On other note, do you really would take the NF as a backup unit?
Luben
Hi Luben,

I'm not sure I understand your question, but if you're asking if I would use the Nanoflash as a back up unit, the answer is never. Why bother? I've been shooting on XDCAM optical discs for over four years and SxS cards for almost three years, and I've never had a single problem with any clip, any disc, or any card. Recording abackup copy at the time of shooting is totally unnecesary. Even though I do own a Nano, I'd never waste my time setting it up as a backup recorder.

I think it is important for me to make this point so people who are thinking of buying an XDCAM EX camcorder aren't left with the impression that it is a risky format to shoot on or requires extra equipment. As others have already said, it is 1000 times better than tape!!! It used to be that I couldn't go for 6 months without having some sort of Betacam failure with the tape or the camcorder itself. And that was despite spending hundreds of dollars every year on preventative maintenance and cleanings. I have not spent a dime on repairs or maintenance in four years, nor suffered the embarrassement or loss of income from an equipmen breakdown, since I switched to XDCAM. I feel totally secure with recording on SxS, transfering to the MS240, erasing the card, and shooting on it again immediately. It's too simple for me to screw up, even though I am perfectly capable of screwing other things up.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 12:44 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
Hi Luben,

I'm not sure I understand your question, but if you're asking if I would use the Nanoflash as a back up unit, the answer is never. Why bother?
I suppose I should clarify some of my statements. I do not view the nanoFlash as a back up unit. For me it is an enhancement to the already stellar quality of the EX1/3. And I did not mean to imply or give the impression that there is any reliability question regarding the camera.

I come from an engineering background where redundancies and factors of safety are not an option but due to risk of loss of human life, it is a necessity. So in every situation I always look for enhancements to safety first. One of the benefits of using the nanoFlash or the AJA or any other redundant acquisition system is another level of security.

Doug, you seem to feel that setting up a second system is a waste of time and a hassle. That is your opinion and for you that is correct. But, at the same time you seem to think that the extra expense of using SxS cards over SDHC is a "wise" decision. Why? Because that is a level of comfort you are willing to pay for. But there are many XDCAM EX users out there that would argue that you're needlessly throwing money away. For them, they don't feel that covering the risk offsets the added cost. It is definitely a personal choice.

Like I have been told several times, the guy who buys meteor insurance looks like a fool until his house is hit by a meteor.

The OP was asking prince no object how to create the most reliability. For me the formula is to build in redundancies and remove the possibility of human error especially under rushed pressure situations.

As in most cases this is just my opinion which is often subject to bouts of craziness.

Garrett
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Old June 9th, 2010, 12:57 AM   #18
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I think if the truth be known then almost all SDHC card users would prefer to use SXS cards, but at $525 or £365 per 16gb card, for a 32gb card then expect to pay $747 or £525. Sony have overpriced this option for many users. Then again they are no worse than the rest of the IT industry, it cost's me £200 to replace four toner cartridges for my colour laser printer, yet I can buy the same new printer complete with four cartridges for £175.

I must look into the MS240 drive, I must have missed this bit of kit at some stage I was not aware of it before this thread.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 07:20 AM   #19
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If I had no money problems I would buy 6 or more 32GB SXS cards.

Although I also have the MxM & ATP combo I record on my SxS cards first then fall back to the MxM setup.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 08:49 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
Mark,
If I was in your shoes, I'd buy a couple of genuine 32GB SxS cards and a PXU-MS240. This way, you avoid all the hassles and/or risks of other solutions.
Yes, leaning to this solution, looking at 2x EX1R so MS240 could do double duty up to 11 hrs capacity at least initially and eSATA will be installed in Macpros for external RAID box so good transfer speeds. Actually I could also offload onto macbookpro as I go via usb2 if need be.

Not keen on the paraphernalia required for external HD or NF hook-ups, about the only real justification for NF is clean green-screen, but with competent lighting 35mbps 'good enough' I suspect.

As for redundancy - interesting, when I can I do on CF with Z5P, but for long-form I don't have luxury and trust the HDV tape transport. I feel going with the 'recommended' Sony SxS I should not have to worry. Sony make it very clear in both marketing and manuals that anything less than SxS media is a 'second-tier' solution that is not as reliable. I take heed.

Thanks to all respondents for sharing their workflow experiences.

Last edited by Mark Joseph; June 9th, 2010 at 08:58 AM. Reason: redundancy discussion added
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Old June 9th, 2010, 09:21 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Anthony McErlean View Post
If I had no money problems I would buy 6 or more 32GB SXS cards.
This is where the Nanoflash would make sense. The cost of 6 SxS cards would cover the Nano, CF cards and a redundant in-camera SHDC setup. You would get the benefit of higher bitrate 4:2:2 and have a backup that could be running and stay in the camera until you ever (hopefully not) needed it.

There are multiple approaches that depend upon the desired output. I agree, most users would use SxS if it were not cost prohibitive for longer record times.
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Old June 9th, 2010, 05:55 PM   #22
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Couple Qs:

Can the PXU-MS240 read the MEAD-SD01 Sony SDHC adaptor?

Can EX record to both ExpressCard slots (MEAD-SD01) at the same time for redundancy?
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Old June 9th, 2010, 11:07 PM   #23
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Mark,

I don't know the answer to the first question because there is no way I'll be shooting anything with a MEAD-SD0 -- therefore I don't have one to test. My guess is that it would work just fine, but that's just a guess.

The answer to the second question is no. You cannot record to both SxS slots at the same time no matter what kind of card you are using. Nor is there any reason to do that even if you could. If you use genuine SxS cards, you don't need to record a simultaneous backup.

In case you are wondering, the same "limitation" applies to the two slots of the Nanoflash. Only one can be used a time.
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Old June 10th, 2010, 06:03 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver View Post
The bit I don't quite get is that I read several people saying that SDHC cards are unreliable, compared to SXS cards. I can accept that. Then in the same breath I am being told the Nano Flash is the way to go. Surely this also relies on memory cards albeit CF cards.
I was thinking along those lines too Vincent, what makes these CF cards more reliable?
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Old June 10th, 2010, 06:06 AM   #25
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I am not sure on the answer to this one, only that people are saying CF cards are more reliable. Personally I have never had any problems with SDHC or CF cards. Plenty of problems with tape though.
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