EX1R - Can codec circuit be "unthrotled" to support 4:2:2? at DVinfo.net

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Old September 9th, 2010, 06:58 PM   #1
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EX1R - Can codec circuit be "unthrotled" to support 4:2:2?

Just wondering. Does the EX1R use the same CODEC circuit board that the Nano Flash uses? (we know Sony makes that board and uses it on some cameras) If so, is it possible to "unlock" the EX1R bit rate options the way Convergant Design did with the (hopefully) same circuit? (possibly via a Sony firmware update?)

If this is at all possible, it would steal almost all the thunder from Canon's new 4:2:2 camcorders. (I'm sure Canon would HATE Sony for it....lol)

This would also greatly extend the life of the EX product series.

I'm fascinated by this idea.

CT
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Old September 10th, 2010, 02:41 AM   #2
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And rob them of sales of some of their more expensive cameras?

I think Sony should be really embarassed that the Nanoflash outperforms their EX cameras.

My guess at the answer to your question would be either Yes, or Yes with a small board modification.

Maybe their are some techies here who know the full story though.

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Old September 10th, 2010, 03:00 AM   #3
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It appears to me as firmware issue (though I am not knowledgeable in that area), but I believe it may appear someday.
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Old September 10th, 2010, 04:52 AM   #4
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I believe the Nano uses 2 of the encoding processors whereas the EX line only have 1. 2 are required for 4:2:2 but I believe 1 chip can produce higher bitrate 4:2:0, 100Mbps max I think, not sure.

I think it was a guy from CD who told me that Broadcast Video Expo last year maybe someone can confirm.
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Old September 10th, 2010, 05:07 AM   #5
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Thing is, this second chip if it's needed can't be too expensive or too large as the Nanoflash is only 2,500 for the entire unit, and is tiny!
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Old September 10th, 2010, 07:13 PM   #6
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I would argue that Canon has now forced the 4:2:2 MPEG 2 long GOP down to a lower price point. Even Canon's "cheap" single sensor pro camera runs 4:2:2. Soon, it's no longer going to be considered by the industry as a "high-end" codec. Sony, by now has to realize this and eventually drop it down to it's EX class line & price point.

At 6K Canon has the Codec but Sony has the 1/2inch sensor advantage. (to me a for more important edge)

I believe that the front end of any camera (lens and sensor combo) is 98% of the image quality.

So, if Sony can drop 4:2:2 down to the $6k price point,..they will stop Canon dead in it's 1/3rd inch sensor tracks! (and they will also sell allot more Ex's without having to design a new camera....hopefully!)

CT

PS,...oh,..they can move native 100mbps 4:2:2 up to the higher end models. (that would hurt Convergent Design though)
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Old September 10th, 2010, 08:08 PM   #7
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Well the EX3 would be one place to revise the lineup and add 50MB 4:2:2 but in a down economy, development dollars are scarce. You can get 50MB 4:2:2 with a Nano and better with a KIPro mini on any camera with an SDI or HDMI so maybe having 50MB 4:2:2 built onto 1/3" chips isn't exactly a big deal.

Last edited by Les Wilson; September 10th, 2010 at 10:27 PM.
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Old September 13th, 2010, 02:30 PM   #8
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Mike the second processor in the Nano is when you go over 422 50Mb/s. The F800, 700, and now 500 have one and they are all 50Mb/s 422. So it can be done with one. But not sure about the CMOS chip on the EX line since all of the others are CCD. I am sure Dan or Mike from CD can answer this question.
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Old September 13th, 2010, 03:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cronin View Post
Mike the second processor in the Nano is when you go over 422 50Mb/s. The F800, 700, and now 500 have one and they are all 50Mb/s 422. So it can be done with one. But not sure about the CMOS chip since all of those are CCD. I am sure Dan or Mike from CD can answer this question.
Hi Paul.

Maybe I was misinformed. I was told it was 4:2:2 as opposed to higher datarates that needed 2 encoding chips and that the 4:2:2 Sony cameras had 2 for that reason. Someone in the know please clarify!
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Old September 13th, 2010, 10:32 PM   #10
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I think this issue is HUGE!

If Sony "CAN" unlock the encoder it will knock Canon flat on their backs. (and Panasonic too)

The problems is this; Sony guards and segments it's markets like a rabid junkyard dog. They are very keen to give out features to some models but hold back to "protect" other models. (they all do it, yes)

If this is possible (it's a big "if" too) then the ONLY roadblock left would be this internal Sony question;

"How will 4:2:2 on the EX series affect our sales of higher model camcorders?"

Hey Sony guys, Canon is already challenging you on it now. You might as well move 4:2:2 @ 50Mbps down to the EX and then allow your higher models to shoot 4:2:2 @ 100Mbps (Like Nano flash style codec,,,,which we already KNOW you are building today and use in higher Sony camcorders)

Sorry Convergent guys, I know this hurts your sales if this is possible but I really think Sony has to do it. That is,...if ANY of this is even possible at all! lol

CT
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Old September 15th, 2010, 12:20 PM   #11
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Interesting thought...

Any volunteers for trial and error??? :-p
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