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Old September 25th, 2010, 03:13 PM   #1
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How to get best cleanest slo mo?

Hi

Shooting using EX1R, probably 1280x720p 60fps at 1/2000 shutter speed since I need best slo mo raw footage....If I want the absolute smoothest slo mo at at 10% of original 1280x720p 60fps, what should I do - I know that Optical flow in Motion is better than FCP slomo, but what about Compressor or Cinema Tools? Does one first conform to 24p? On FCP time line or through Compressor or what?

What workflow would provide the best cleanest smoothest slomo to make it look like it was shot at 1000fps? Shooting ballet and jazz dancers, black outfits against white BG mostly.

Thanks
K

PS. Never used Cinema Tools - how to, if it's the best to conform and to what - 24p?
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Old September 26th, 2010, 10:43 AM   #2
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To react on the first part of your post:
shoot overcranked at 60/24!
This way the footage will be saved at 35Mb/24frames at normal 60p it will be 35Mb/60frames.

If you want footage to look like it was shot at 1000fps, you'll need to shoot it at 1000fps.
With 60fps your software will have to interpolate around 16 frames (15,6666) between every frames you got (1000/60=16,6666 16,6666-1=15,6666). I never tried anything like that, but it will probably look blurry, like morphes or like crossfades.
In my opinion (I could be wrong!) it's like you are trying to shoot a movie with 2 stills per second and expect the software to fill in the blanks for you.
I fear you are stretching the possibilties to much; doubling the frames should be possible with the right tools, without everybody noticing it. But I could be mistaking.

If it's an assignment: explain them you'll need to rent a camera that can do the job. (And enough light with the right specs to do it.)
If it's 'for fun': try how far you can strech the footage before the motion really falls apart and let us know :-)

Good luck!
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Old September 26th, 2010, 12:20 PM   #3
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Kent, search for Twixtor on the internet. I do not have experience with it, but it seems to be a very valuable plug in.
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Old September 26th, 2010, 01:10 PM   #4
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Hi
I have tried using the slomo of CS4 (timewarp) It seems not to create fantastic slomo. I have seen Twixtor made slomos and they seem fantastic - - but the footage was another style that what I have tried.
I have tried making a flying bird with a moving background in slomo and timewarp have troubles with that. The Twixtor clips I have seen is with just one moving object and a fixed camera - is this the right way to use Twixtor ?
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Old September 26th, 2010, 09:06 PM   #5
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Kent, I would say the most important factor would be camera movement. Slowing down footage that much is a lot of interpolation as mentioned. If you happen to be moving the camera it will be magnified. So I would try to not move the camera at all if it fits with your subject matter.

My jury is out on high shutter speeds. I would experiment and see what you like the best. I have shot dance with higher shutter thinking of slo-mo and have thought the normal 1/60th looked fine. Especially ballet where the motion blur add to the fluidity.

As mentioned, you can not replace actual higher framerates. But I have to say even 60p slowed on a 60p timeline looks pretty good. A lot better than in the DV days.
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Old September 26th, 2010, 09:53 PM   #6
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Take all the above advice for frame rates but do yourself a favor and get twixtor. Just be warned it's addictive!
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Old September 26th, 2010, 10:28 PM   #7
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Watch this:

YouTube - FemHit Big

Then get Twixtor.

(I used something different but similar for this video)

This was shot on an EX1, 720/60p 1/120 shutter.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 11:39 AM   #8
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Thanks to everyone for replies...Perrone, was that shot originally 720p 60 in S&Q mode or just regular 720p 60?
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Old September 27th, 2010, 12:18 PM   #9
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Regular. I needed the audio.
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Old September 27th, 2010, 05:45 PM   #10
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Perrone, what was the final frame rate after applying the plug-in slow mo?
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Old September 27th, 2010, 09:23 PM   #11
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Kent,

Twixtor does work great on certain types of shots and up to a certain amount without being able to notice something is obviously up with the footage and it was not shot this slow look.... Shooting at 60p with the EX1 locked down can give you some flexability but once you go past 120 in post you will start to have issues IMHO...I have an EX1 and love it but ultra slow mo will be tough sell. I have shot 120 with RED and it looks great but even it's footage would not go to 1000fps without looking poor.... I have been spoiled and got to shoot a Phantom HD and once you see real 1000fps footage it is very very obvious you can not touch it in comparison. The link below is a small reel of 1000fps shots from a phantom for comparison. Twixtor is cool but conditions have to be perfect (against a sky background perhaps) and you may be able to get a shot to look as though it was shot at 500fps in a perfect scenario. If a higher end client is looking for footage shot at 1000fps I highly suggest renting a phantom to get the shot or discuss other options if the budget will not allow for the high end rental.

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Old September 27th, 2010, 11:59 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad Johnson View Post
Perrone, what was the final frame rate after applying the plug-in slow mo?
No idea, it varied through that clip and others I do. Generally, I slow it down to 25-15% of original, depending on needs.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 07:53 AM   #13
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I see the "swimming background" in Perrone's video (although I certainly appreciate the effort). I tried Twixtor a few times and the circumstances really have to be right with the background in order for it to look Phantom like.

I keep hoping that with the advent of large sensor video cameras, some manufacturer will be able to cut down on the data to increase the frame rate . . . much as one drops from 1080 to 720 in the EX series to get 720p24/60. If one looks at the Casio still cameras that go to something like 1000fps at the size of a postage stamp, it must be possible to do something useful at under $10k. I'm half tempted to buy one of those and try blowing up the frame.

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Old September 28th, 2010, 08:51 AM   #14
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I agree with Jason to do it right you need the right gear. You can trick them up to a point and twice what you shoot seems to be the limit but even then viewed on a nice HD screen you will notice.

Jason the Brain Farm demo http://www.brainfarmcinema.com/video/video_1.aspx is the best demo I have viewed period, it inspires me every time I watch it. The right gear: Cineflex, Phantom HD, Red One, Pan 3700, Huges 500, and the knowledge to know how to use it properly.
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Old September 28th, 2010, 09:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Seeman View Post
I see the "swimming background" in Perrone's video (although I certainly appreciate the effort). I tried Twixtor a few times and the circumstances really have to be right with the background in order for it to look Phantom like.
Yep, but it's suitable for purpose. Really, very few people have the resources to just "rent a Phantom or a Weisscam" when they need slo-mo. So we have to make due with the tools at our disposal. I shoot slo-mo for motion analysis work about 2-3 times a month. It's not critical use, and the EX1 or the T2i do a serviceable job.

If I was making a living off this, or my rates for shooting warranted it, you can best believe I'd get a real high speed camera in to do the work. But on my own dime? No way. :)
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