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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old October 23rd, 2010, 09:44 AM   #1
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From Avid back to Ex1r?

I have a finished project I want to export from Avid 4.5 to my Ex1r, and from there I'll be using a Nitris DX to make an SD version for broadcast.

Is this even possible? I can't seem to find a workflow from the mixed down sequence to the camera.
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 04:33 PM   #2
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To the camera?

There is no such workflow. And even if there were this would be a *really* bad idea.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 10:56 AM   #3
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Really bad... why?

I simply thought that with the "send to device" option clicked that Avid would export back to the camera, and then I could take the camera and unload the sequences into another Avid system for converting via Nitris.

I ended up exporting a big quicktime file, sticking it on a hard drive, and matching settings to do a fast import into Avid, then into the station's system. Didn't work that bad, but I found it odd that Avid has a options for outputting to XDCam and P2 but not XDCamEx.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 11:11 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Nathan Swinn View Post
Really bad... why?
Because XDCam (and XDCamEX) is a VERY lossy and highly compressed video codec. And after you've gone and done whatever you are going to do in Avid MC, it makes little sense to re-compress all that, and ship it off to Nitris. It would be FAR better, to take the native Avid project and ship that to the Nitris system, or at LEAST export into a lossless codec.

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Originally Posted by Nathan Swinn View Post
I simply thought that with the "send to device" option clicked that Avid would export back to the camera, and then I could take the camera and unload the sequences into another Avid system for converting via Nitris.
This isn't tape. There is no need for this kind of workflow when you aren't dealing with tape. It's slow, inefficient, and lossy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Swinn View Post
I ended up exporting a big quicktime file, sticking it on a hard drive, and matching settings to do a fast import into Avid, then into the station's system. Didn't work that bad, but I found it odd that Avid has a options for outputting to XDCam and P2 but not XDCamEx.
Why didn't you just take the entire Avid project and put it on the hard drive. Then you would not have needed to create a large quicktime file, nor suffer the loss from that.

Avid has an XDCam and P2 option for broadcast purposes. XDCamEX is not broadcast grade by most specs. Also XDCam is archival as it is designed to be written onto optical media. XDCamEX is not.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 11:35 AM   #5
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D'oh. Tape think!
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Old October 25th, 2010, 12:18 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
Because XDCam (and XDCamEX)
Avid has an XDCam and P2 option for broadcast purposes. XDCamEX is not broadcast grade by most specs. Also XDCam is archival as it is designed to be written onto optical media. XDCamEX is not.
This didn't read right to me...

I thought XDCAM HD was 35Mb vbr 1440x1080 4:2:0, vs XDCAM EX 1920x1080 4:2:0 35Mb vbr.

(and P2 is file based just like XDCAM EX, fwiw)

I can't see what would make XDCAM EX a non-broadcast "grade" format, it doesn't appear to be worse in spec.
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Old October 25th, 2010, 12:26 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Gene Gajewski View Post
This didn't read right to me...

I thought XDCAM HD was 35Mb vbr 1440x1080 4:2:0, vs XDCAM EX 1920x1080 4:2:0 35Mb vbr.

(and P2 is file based just like XDCAM EX, fwiw)

I can't see what would make XDCAM EX a non-broadcast "grade" format, it doesn't appear to be worse in spec.
Needed to check something...

XDCamHD is indeed 4:2:0 35Mbps. The spec I was thinking of was XDCamHD422 which is 50Mbps and is the more current spec.

However, it is quite common to archive on XDCam disks, and NOT common to archive on SxS. So having an export option for XDCam makes more sense.

P2, on the other hand is not long GOP, is 100Mbps, and is not nearly as lossy on a second pass as XDCam. So that makes more sense to me.

In any event, going back to media with an export to device seems like a poor workflow if the intent is simply to bring it into a finishing system. Hard drives are a much faster and more efficient workflow.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 09:30 AM   #8
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I thought that since the files come off the camera and into Avid very quickly as MXF I'd be able to output MXF\native rez into the EX, then use the camera to offload the file(s) into the networked Avid system at the station for a fast workflow with no transcoding. Out of EX, into Avid, out of Avid into EX. I found one workaround in the Avid forums but it would have taxed my meagre computer skills.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 10:02 AM   #9
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I thought that since the files come off the camera and into Avid very quickly as MXF I'd be able to output MXF\native rez into the EX, then use the camera to offload the file(s) into the networked Avid system at the station for a fast workflow with no transcoding. Out of EX, into Avid, out of Avid into EX. I found one workaround in the Avid forums but it would have taxed my meagre computer skills.
Ok, here's the problem.

1. You import from the camera to the computer somehow. Not sure how you're doing that, but by the sounds of it, you don't have an SxS reader so you're connecting the camera directly.

2. You import into Avid as XDCamEX MXF. (no loss)

3. You perform your edits. (no loss)

4. You WANT to export back to XDCam onto the camera (lossy)

5. You would then go to Nitris and import the files again. (no loss)


So how about this:

1. Attach camera to computer and copy the entire card structure onto either a portable drive or network drive. Disconnect camera and put it back in the bag.

2. Import into Avid via AMA (takes about 5 seconds) with no loss

3. Perform edit. Save project to network drive or portable drive.

4. Go to Nitris system, open project, perform finishing tasks. I am *assuming* the Nitris system can read the MC project. If it can't should be able to at least open the bins. If even that doesn't work, then at step 3, you can export a LOSSLESS file (not XDCamEX) and then save that on a network drive or portable drive and open that with Nitris.

The primary benefit of a solid state workflow is that YOU DO NOT NEED A DECK. You are using your camera as a deck, and it's simply not necessary, and slower than needed. Get off the camera. This is not tape. Get the files onto a hard drive, and put the camera back in the bag. That's the last time it's needed. If you had as SxS card reader, you'd never even need to take the camera out of the bag.

Using the camera as a deck is about 1/10 the speed of working with the cards directly. Get out of that workflow and mindset. It's slowing you down needlessly.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 10:41 AM   #10
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Thanks Perrone. I'll follow your flow next time I deliver.
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Old October 27th, 2010, 11:22 AM   #11
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Thanks Perrone. I'll follow your flow next time I deliver.
Don't wait for a delivery. Test the workflow now. Take what you just did through the new workflow and see if it works out for you. There are times to make adjustments in that workflow, like not using AMA and instead using an import. Test whether Nitris will open an MC project. Test whether you can open the MC bins in a Nitris project.

I test dozens of workflow things before I have to deliver anything so that there aren't any surprises when I have to work quickly on the clock.
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