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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old October 30th, 2010, 11:09 PM   #1
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Noise Issues with EX1

I'm having some noise issues with my EX1. I'm sure it's user error, but for some reason, I'm getting crazy noise, even outdoors. Any tips? Thanks! (my settings are below)


Here are my settings:

1080 30p
Gain: 0 dB
Shutter: 1/60

Picture Profile:
Matrix: High SAT, Level 0, Phase -5, R-G +75, R-B 0, G-R -18, G-B -32, B-R -27, B-G 13

Color Correction: off
Offset White: off
Detail: on, all zeros
Skin tone detail: off
Black: -12
Black Gamma: 0
Low Key Sat: 0
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Old October 30th, 2010, 11:53 PM   #2
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You do not state what gamma you are using, if it is STD1 that may be the culprit.
Alister Chapman says that the standard gamma 1 gives more noise than the others.
Check the other standard gammas or cinegammas.

XDCAM-USER.com XDCAM EX Gamma Curves and Knee
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Old October 31st, 2010, 04:15 AM   #3
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I strongly recommend reverting all the color matrix pairs back to zero, and using Standard or Cinema matrix.

If you're after some color correction it can be done in post.
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Old October 31st, 2010, 07:58 PM   #4
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Thanks, guys. I have the Gama Setting at CINE1. Is there anything else that could be creating the noise?

Thanks!
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Old November 1st, 2010, 03:26 AM   #5
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Noise levels look pretty normal to me. Most cameras are noisy in the blues.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 06:35 AM   #6
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Must get my eyes checked because I can't see any objectionable noise.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 08:37 AM   #7
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shooting outdoors I alwasy have gain @ -3db, not sure why you keep it 0,
great picture btw, unless you do 500% crop, but why?
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Old November 1st, 2010, 11:23 AM   #8
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I agree with Simon it looks pretty normal for a EX camera.

Why are you using such extreme numbers in the color matrix?
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Old November 1st, 2010, 12:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotr Wozniacki View Post
If you're after some color correction it can be done in post.
I compared the results of color correction in post and color corection inside the "matrix"-settings: The correction in post turned out to be a little bit noisier - and the compression-artifacts get more visible. (I record on SxS cards, maybe this is not a problem if you record on an external 4:2:2-device)

The noise looks pretty normal to me, but if you want to denoise your footage in post i can recommend this plugin: Neat Video - best noise reduction for digital video (if you know you want to denoise your footage in post, shoot in 1080p, so you keep more details even with extremer denoiser-settings)

you can also improve the noise-level by lowering the "Low Key Sat"-Setting in PP (this way you wont get that much blue noise in darker areas) - and by turning detail:off (you can allways sharpen the picture in post)
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Old November 1st, 2010, 02:35 PM   #10
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thanks for watching, guys! i changed my color matrix settings and will go to -3 db next time!

i appreciate all of your help!
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Old November 1st, 2010, 07:10 PM   #11
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I thought -3db gain reduced the dynamic range of the camera compared to 0db. I don't know the amount but I would rather have more dynamic range than the noise difference between 0 & -3 db.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 10:49 PM   #12
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Use 0dB and cine2 to get the maximal dynamic range within 100 IRE without headache. The other cine-gammas produce values above 100 IRE which usually will clip to white in post-production (manual remapping to 100 IRE in post = headache). With -3dB all cine-gammas have their white-point below 100 IRE, so the lightest possible color would be light gray (manual remapping to 100 IRE in post = headache). The std-gammas will use the maximal possible dynamic range only, if the knee-settings are adjusted properly (=headache + most of the time unpleasant looking images).
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 11:52 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Nibler View Post
The noise looks pretty normal to me, but if you want to denoise your footage in post i can recommend this plugin: Neat Video - best noise reduction for digital video (if you know you want to denoise your footage in post, shoot in 1080p, so you keep more details even with extremer denoiser-settings)
I really love NeatVideo for my EX1R footage - it does an awesome job by reducing the noise (I always set my EX1R to -3db but there is still little noise in a dark night sky) without smooting the details. Even if you set it to 5% chroma noise reduction only its visibly more clean on 50'' reference plasma TV. If you go as high as 50-60% noise reduction you get an image as smooth as silk...

But beware, you introduce 2 problems with NeatVideo:

- rendering times will rise upto 10-15 hours for 30 minutes video on a i7-920 Win64bit system
- you will have noticable bending problems if you film blue skies, night skies with lights or underwater blues... The H.264 encoder needs noise to avoid disturbing bending of color gradients. Clean image = heavy bending.
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Old November 3rd, 2010, 12:12 PM   #14
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10 to 15 hours rendering for a 30 minute production, that sounds like something we all need.
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Old November 8th, 2010, 04:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver View Post
10 to 15 hours rendering for a 30 minute production, that sounds like something we all need.
LOL! I hear you there.
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