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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old November 30th, 2010, 03:27 PM   #1
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Marching the pmw 320 to the Ex-3. Ex-1R

Still not much progress with the 320. I have basically matched the Ex-1R and the Ex-3 by using the Picture profile suggested by Doug Jenson in his Vortex Media DVD for the Ex-3. and it is as follows:

Matrix on High Set
white off set.. off
gamma... CINE 4
Black -3
Black Gamma -2
Low key sat 0

I really like this look. The colors are much richer than the 320 out of the box.

Now if I just could figure out how to transfer that look over to the 320 I think I would be in the ball park at least.

I have tried Allister Chapman's settings settings Alister -Natural... Alister-filmic.... and Alister -Canon look and neither of them seem to give the same rich color and detail that the picture profile from Doug Jenson does. .

Is there anyone out there that has tried to match the ex-1R, Ex-3 and the 320?
If so would any of you be interested in posting your scene files for the 320 so that trial and error I could see if I could stumble on a similar look that matches the Picture Profile from Doug?

Thanks so much for all the help that you provide on this forum

Ronnie

Thanks

Ronnie
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Old November 30th, 2010, 06:12 PM   #2
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Try using Hypergamma 1, Turn the user matrix on and set all 6 of the user matrix settings (r-b, r-g etc) to +25 and black gamma to -20.

I don't have a camera to hand to actually test this but it should get you in the right ball park. Adding +25 to all the matrix vectors should bring the saturation up to a similar level as the EX1 with Hi-Sat matrix. Black gamma at -20 will give the image a more contrasty look.
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Old November 30th, 2010, 09:01 PM   #3
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Thanks so much Alister for coming to my rescue. I have a gig this weekend and really need to get the cameras close...

I will let you know how it works.

Ronnie
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Old December 1st, 2010, 10:14 AM   #4
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Hello Alister: Please forgive my inexperience... I used the settings that you recommended and the cameras are closer now using the ex-1R PP as a reference. On the Ex-1r after choosing a Picture Profile it stays on this PP after removing the power. I may be wrong but when I power off the 320 it I have to load the scene file (standard 1) all over again. Like I said before I have so very little experience with a camera with so many settings as the 320. I saved the changes I made to scene file 1 standard in the camera memory... ( I think) but when powered down and then back up they are lost. Kinda like me...

Also what about all the other settings that you recommend such as detail (-8) and aperture (+20) that you mentioned in your first post when you were trying to bring up the sharpness more like the ex-3?

Sorry to be such a pest but I want to make the image look as much like the Ex-3 and Ex-1R as possible.

One last newbe question. Are the settings you recommended above in addition to other settings?

By now you are really laughing but everybody has to start somewhere. Unfortunately I am at the very bottom.

Thanks

Ronnie
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Old December 1st, 2010, 10:44 AM   #5
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Hey Ronnie, everybody is laughing with you! just kidding.

Seriously, this is where you learn how images and cameras work...by setting up your cameras and deciding what you like to see. It takes time but hook the things up to a monitor (calibrated) and start changing settings and see what changes.

After doing this more and more you start to see what makes a good and bad image.

Sorry to chime in here but I would say start with Alister's settings and go from there.
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Old December 1st, 2010, 11:49 AM   #6
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Thanks Tim... I appreciate you reply... LOL... The 320 is a pretty awesome camera. Several years ago I had a DSR 500 and actually used it for several years with just the default settings and warm cards for white balance and it did a fairly good job. At the time it was my only camera and I was not into multiple camera shoots. However, now with the Ex-3 Ex-1R and the 320 I am all geared up for multi camera shoots and I want the cameras to match as much as possible. I realize that what looks good to one person may not look good to another. However, I am trying to make them all look similar. The Picture profile for the Ex-3/Ex-1r from Doug Jenson looks good to me and I am trying to get that same look with the 320. Out of the box the 320 has more of a pale look and I prefer the richer colors that I am getting from the ex-3-ex-1r.

I have changed so much in the camera that now I can't remember where I was last. Also I am a little confused on how to keep the look when powering down the camera. The settings that Alister gave me helped but there are a slew of other settings that he did not mention.

I agree with Alister that out of the box the 320 is not as sharp as the EX-3. In his first post after using the 320 he gave some settings with detail and aperture that appeared to bring the 320 up from being a little softer than the ex-3.

What I thought I would do is start with the settings that Alister calls Alister-Natural then add the changes that he posted for me last night.

Where I am confused is that the scene files do not work like the PP files in the menu of the ExR1/Ex3
cameras. I don't seem to be able to save them to a scene file that stays in place after powering down.
I know I am doing something wrong.

I guess it will finally boil down to a setting that I can achieve with the help of my friends and trial and error
but I am still not sure how to save them so that when the camera comes back up they will be there.
That is where the 320 is different from the EX cameras.

Like always I am one click from success and one click from disaster. I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post.

Thanks for your encouragement

Ronnie
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 05:35 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alister Chapman View Post
Try using Hypergamma 1, Turn the user matrix on and set all 6 of the user matrix settings (r-b, r-g etc) to +25 and black gamma to -20.

I don't have a camera to hand to actually test this but it should get you in the right ball park. Adding +25 to all the matrix vectors should bring the saturation up to a similar level as the EX1 with Hi-Sat matrix. Black gamma at -20 will give the image a more contrasty look.
Well I have made some progress... the cameras still don't match completely but they are close. I have used the settings that Alister recommended above along with other settings from the Alister natural and I really like the vivid colors that I am getting out of the 320 now. Actually I had to go back and use some of the settings that Alister recommended along with Doug Jenson Doug 1 PP.

My problem now is for the life of me I don't know how to save them in the camera memory for the 320 so that they will stay there after powering down the camera. On the EX-1 R all I have to do is press PP button and choose Doug 1 with the tweaks and it comes back up after powering down. The 320 is a bit confusing on what to do with the paint settings that is saving them into a specific scene file with a name.

What I am trying to do is be able to power down the camera and then back up on the same shoot without having to load all the settings again.

I know that there is a simple way to do this but for some reason I just can't get my head around it.

Any suggestions on how to do this on the 320 would be appreciated.

If I ever get them to stick on the 320 I will post what I am using on both cameras....

Like Alister said there is really no correct look to the cameras what looks good to me may not look good to someone else... at least the cameras are close.

Thanks

Ronnie
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Old December 2nd, 2010, 07:43 PM   #8
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I have narrowed it down to saving the settings to the internal memory of the camera. I have read and reread the manual on page 136-137 and when I try to " All File Save" an all file box is supposed to appear. That box is grayed out. I really feel dumb now after finding a look common or similar to both cameras however bad it may be I cannot save it to the camera memory in the 320. '

It may be that there is no way to save a scene file and have it retained when the camera is powered down and then back up without recalling it some way from the memory. However, the first hurdle I have to get over is just saving the file.

Anybody have luck in saving scene files in the 320/ or even the 350. They should work the same way.

I know you guys are getting tired of seeing me post such dumb questions. I promise if I ever figure it out I will give it a rest.

Thanks

Ronnie
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Old December 15th, 2010, 03:12 PM   #9
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PMW 320 - Saving scene files

Hi Ronnie, just read your posts and your problem saving scene files. Turn to page 138 in the manual (saving and loading scene files) and follow the instructions. Make sure you name the scene file and move the cursor to highlight set and then confirm. Then select either internal memory or a SxS card and again confirm and then save the file to a position of your choice.

Good luck David
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