What format would you use on TM700 as b-Cam for XDCAM? at DVinfo.net

Les Wilson · January 23rd, 2011, 07:21 AM

I'm trying my hand at long form documentary. On-site shooting is in the 3rd world with a low power footprint and I'm shooting mostly as a one-man-band. Since none of the CES announced cameras will be available in time, I've decided to get the Panasonic TM700 as a gorilla-pod/lock down charlie/POV B-camera for my EX1R.

Unless convinced otherwise, I've chosen to shoot in 1080p24 on the EX principally because it has the best low light performance in 1080p and the TM700 also shoots that format.

Since the TM700 has the distinctive of having 1080p60, I was wondering if there's any benefit to shooting the TM700 in 60p and converting in post?

Target distribution format will be 720p via the web.

TIA

Bo Skelmose · January 23rd, 2011, 11:13 AM

Hi
Why not stay at 24p now you have started - unless you can benefit from the great slowmotion posibilities when recording in 60P.
I would always choose a format that would fit into the broadcasters without to much converting.
If the most importent for you is the low light capability you should choose 24P.

Have you tried recording something in 24P without shutter - I would say it is useless because of motion blur. Normally I use a 180 degree shutter for my recordings - thats in 25P = 1/50.
Now I always record in 50P and without shutter for normal puposes or using the shutter when I would need to stabalize the footage afterwards. I see no problem in mixing the slowshutter (24P) lowlight scenes at the fire with highlight 50P or 60P scenes at daylight. Dont know if this makes sense - probably someone else have some inputs too......

C.S. Michael · January 24th, 2011, 11:27 PM

I have both an EX1 and a TM700, and mix the footage.

My workflow is to shoot the TM700 in 60p mode. The reason is resolution & bit rate -- I'm told that the TM700 resolves more vertical resolution in the 60P 28 Mbps mode. Then I batch covert the 60P files to 24P -- the same 24P Sony MXF EX codec that the EX1 produces.

I have no idea whether this is the "best" approach but it has worked okay for me. Transcoding the 60P files is a time consuming process, but the results have been fine for my purposes (720P Web output).

Les Wilson · January 25th, 2011, 11:05 AM

@ C.S. Michael - Thanks. That is exactly what I was wondering. BTW, your early posts about the TM700 were very helpful in evaluating it. Love that yellow Porsche.

C.S. Michael · January 25th, 2011, 06:21 PM

Happy to help. I'm not as technically knowledgeable as many of the guys on here, so I usually sit at the back of the class and stay quiet. :) But on this topic I do have some experience. I use the Vegas batch render tool to transcode the files from 60P to 24P Sony MXF.

If I had to guess what upgrades Panasonic will include in the successor to the TM700, I think one will be a more robust 24p mode (ie. native 24p with at least a 24 Mbps bit rate).The currently included 24P mode is only 17 Mbps, so for now we're probably better off using the 28 Mbps 60P mode and transcoding the files.

Andy Wilkinson · January 26th, 2011, 03:29 AM

I may be wrong but I think Panasonic (unfortunately) kept the 24p mode at 17Mbps on the CES 2011 announced upgrades a couple of weeks ago. The "only" big upgrades in the new TM900, SD900 etc. cameras (which should be shipping in a few days) is a slightly higher resolution and half inch bigger LCD, plus some improvements in image processing and movement of the DC power in socket on some models (but I suspect not the TM900). Probably a few other tweaks but those were the main ones I remember from the Panasonic Global site (now linked below so anyone can study detail if they want).

HDC-HS900/HDC-TM900/HDC-SD900/HDC-SD800 | HD Camcorder | Panasonic Global

I really wished they would improve the 4 blade iris (6 at a minimum would have been a big improvement regarding any backround bokeh effects in macro mode etc.) but I don't think they have as I'm sure it would have got a mention!

Otherwise, still looks like a stunning range for top end consumer cams! I'm currently considering the TM900 cam or the Canon XA10 (almost twice the price, I suspect!....UK pricing not yet confirmed). It's really down to 1080p50/60 on the TM900 (which even my EX3 can't do!) or the (removeable) XLR inputs option on the Canon and the 3 chip versus 1 performance things, at least in my head, and of course how easy it might be to set either AVCHD cam to best match the Sony EX3 (and/or Canon 7D) that I already have which nicely brings us back to the thread topic. I'll go and sit at the back now and join C.S!

Les Wilson · January 26th, 2011, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson

I may be wrong but I think Panasonic (unfortunately) kept the 24p mode at 17Mbps on the CES 2011 announced upgrades a couple of weeks ago. The "only" big upgrades in the new TM900, SD900 etc. cameras (which should be shipping in a few days) is a slightly higher resolution and half inch bigger LCD,...

Yep, that increased LCD resolution is desirable but I can't wait that long. What's this about shipping in a few days? I see availability in March here in the US. Are they shipping sooner in the UK?

Andy Wilkinson · January 26th, 2011, 08:35 AM

Amazon UK is claiming the TM900 will be released on 28th Jan. It remains to be seen if that's going to be true but for sure the supply of older TM700's seems to have, more or less, dried up with them and most UK camera suppliers (well the one's I'd trust, that is).

January 23rd, 2011, 07:21 AM	#1
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	What format would you use on TM700 as b-Cam for XDCAM? I'm trying my hand at long form documentary. On-site shooting is in the 3rd world with a low power footprint and I'm shooting mostly as a one-man-band. Since none of the CES announced cameras will be available in time, I've decided to get the Panasonic TM700 as a gorilla-pod/lock down charlie/POV B-camera for my EX1R. Unless convinced otherwise, I've chosen to shoot in 1080p24 on the EX principally because it has the best low light performance in 1080p and the TM700 also shoots that format. Since the TM700 has the distinctive of having 1080p60, I was wondering if there's any benefit to shooting the TM700 in 60p and converting in post? Target distribution format will be 720p via the web. TIA

January 24th, 2011, 11:27 PM	#3
C.S. Michael Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 197	I have both an EX1 and a TM700, and mix the footage. My workflow is to shoot the TM700 in 60p mode. The reason is resolution & bit rate -- I'm told that the TM700 resolves more vertical resolution in the 60P 28 Mbps mode. Then I batch covert the 60P files to 24P -- the same 24P Sony MXF EX codec that the EX1 produces. I have no idea whether this is the "best" approach but it has worked okay for me. Transcoding the 60P files is a time consuming process, but the results have been fine for my purposes (720P Web output). __________________ Bored? Check out my blog (shot with Sony EX1, Panasonic TM700, Nikon D7100, Sony NEX-5N, GoPro2): LongLongHoneymoon.com

January 25th, 2011, 06:21 PM	#5
C.S. Michael Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 197	Happy to help. I'm not as technically knowledgeable as many of the guys on here, so I usually sit at the back of the class and stay quiet. :) But on this topic I do have some experience. I use the Vegas batch render tool to transcode the files from 60P to 24P Sony MXF. If I had to guess what upgrades Panasonic will include in the successor to the TM700, I think one will be a more robust 24p mode (ie. native 24p with at least a 24 Mbps bit rate).The currently included 24P mode is only 17 Mbps, so for now we're probably better off using the 28 Mbps 60P mode and transcoding the files. __________________ Bored? Check out my blog (shot with Sony EX1, Panasonic TM700, Nikon D7100, Sony NEX-5N, GoPro2): LongLongHoneymoon.com

January 26th, 2011, 03:29 AM	#6
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	I may be wrong but I think Panasonic (unfortunately) kept the 24p mode at 17Mbps on the CES 2011 announced upgrades a couple of weeks ago. The "only" big upgrades in the new TM900, SD900 etc. cameras (which should be shipping in a few days) is a slightly higher resolution and half inch bigger LCD, plus some improvements in image processing and movement of the DC power in socket on some models (but I suspect not the TM900). Probably a few other tweaks but those were the main ones I remember from the Panasonic Global site (now linked below so anyone can study detail if they want). HDC-HS900/HDC-TM900/HDC-SD900/HDC-SD800 \| HD Camcorder \| Panasonic Global I really wished they would improve the 4 blade iris (6 at a minimum would have been a big improvement regarding any backround bokeh effects in macro mode etc.) but I don't think they have as I'm sure it would have got a mention! Otherwise, still looks like a stunning range for top end consumer cams! I'm currently considering the TM900 cam or the Canon XA10 (almost twice the price, I suspect!....UK pricing not yet confirmed). It's really down to 1080p50/60 on the TM900 (which even my EX3 can't do!) or the (removeable) XLR inputs option on the Canon and the 3 chip versus 1 performance things, at least in my head, and of course how easy it might be to set either AVCHD cam to best match the Sony EX3 (and/or Canon 7D) that I already have which nicely brings us back to the thread topic. I'll go and sit at the back now and join C.S! __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

January 26th, 2011, 08:35 AM	#8
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Amazon UK is claiming the TM900 will be released on 28th Jan. It remains to be seen if that's going to be true but for sure the supply of older TM700's seems to have, more or less, dried up with them and most UK camera suppliers (well the one's I'd trust, that is). __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

January 23rd, 2011, 11:13 AM	#2
Bo Skelmose Major Player Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Denmark Posts: 495	Hi Why not stay at 24p now you have started - unless you can benefit from the great slowmotion posibilities when recording in 60P. I would always choose a format that would fit into the broadcasters without to much converting. If the most importent for you is the low light capability you should choose 24P. Have you tried recording something in 24P without shutter - I would say it is useless because of motion blur. Normally I use a 180 degree shutter for my recordings - thats in 25P = 1/50. Now I always record in 50P and without shutter for normal puposes or using the shutter when I would need to stabalize the footage afterwards. I see no problem in mixing the slowshutter (24P) lowlight scenes at the fire with highlight 50P or 60P scenes at daylight. Dont know if this makes sense - probably someone else have some inputs too......

January 25th, 2011, 11:05 AM	#4
Les Wilson Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Boca Raton, FL Posts: 3,014	@ C.S. Michael - Thanks. That is exactly what I was wondering. BTW, your early posts about the TM700 were very helpful in evaluating it. Love that yellow Porsche.