EX1 vs EX1R

[John Eithcowich]

I'm sure this has been debated before, but I think there's fresh information given that B&H now lists the EX1R at $6000 after the rebate. So my question is, what's a better value -- a new EX1R or a used EX1 from a good seller (Adorama) at $4600?

My budget can stretch to the 6k range but it would be a lot easier for me to save the extra $1400. Some more info about my needs:

1. I'm shooting quite a bit hand held, so how much better for this is the EX1R's ergonomics?

2. I'm going to use SDHC cards. Is there an issue here with the older model?

Thank you very much for your help!!

Eyal

[Chris Medico]

The improvement in ergonomics is incremental. Neither is the best camera for handheld shooting for any length of time without a shoulder mount setup. The "R" is a bit better with the redesigned handgrip.

Both cameras (with the most current firmware) handle the SDHC cards perfectly well. This assumes you get reasonably good memory cards.

Based on what you indicate your use is I don't see the value in getting the "R" over a good used EX1. If you are going to do a lot of handheld work you may be better to get the used camera and spend the difference on a good shoulder mount.

[John Eithcowich]

Thanks, Chris.

Can you recommend a good, reasonably priced shoulder mount?

[Ollie Walton]

ex1r is great. But not worth the buy over ex1.

big diff. is

1) s+q button on outside is handy, but to be honest takes two secs in the menu.

2) Also the grip is better. The grip on the handle is shocking on the ex1.

3) Cache recording, not really neccs i wouldn't really use it.

4) Coloring on switches handy but again not worth extra cost.

5) Only thing i think is a big dif, is hdmi out. If your using dslrs as b cameras you can use the same monitors etc.

However you can get some great deals on ex1's now.

I love mine great bit of kit. You will love it

Ollie

[John Eithcowich]

Thanks, Ollie. Sorry about the noob questions but what's the "s+q" button?

And as for the grip, are you able to shoot with it hand held, or is it really awful?

[Junior Chan]

S&Q = Slow and Quick Motion.

More differences:
- One the EX1R you can record in Standard Def in DVCAM mode
- Improved Audio

John,

We also have for sale:
-PMW-EX1 used
-PMW-EX1R used
-PMW-EX1R Brand New (Mail in rebate of $300)

Contact my sales department for more info: sales@ecprovideo.com
You're located in NY? Stop by our store at 51st Street Between Broadway & 8th and take a look.

[Chris Medico]

Originally Posted by John Eithcowich

Thanks, Chris.

Can you recommend a good, reasonably priced shoulder mount?

I have a VERY old shoulder mount for an old Sony VX1000 that I hacked apart to work on the EX1. I've not used a modern one. Sorry that I don't have more info for you there. I don't use it much anymore anyway. I've found a better solution that I have noted below.

To add some to the handheld comments - Depending on what I'm doing its OK to use handheld if I take the camera and cradle it in your arm almost like a baby. This brings the camera well below the eye line but for some of the stuff I shoot its a look that works well. You can't do it standing too close to your subject unless they are really short. ;) I have one of the large 95wh batteries on the back of the camera and it sticks out far enough to act as a stand-off. The battery works well to wedge against your upper chest when you are holding the camera higher too.

One accessory that I've found VERY beneficial with this camera is a monopod. When I'm running the camera "low" I tilt the head up and tuck the monopod under my arm with the leg collapsed. If I need to stand still and shoot a normal interview I stand it up and extend it out to take the weight of the camera. If I need to walk around with the camera up higher I shorten it up and stick the foot in an old knife holster on my belt. Works great and was about $125 in total. Try to find one that is 4 section so it will collapse down enough.

[Ollie Walton]

loads of mounts you can buy.

some good shoulder mounts too.

Sandq lets you do slow motion for example 720p25p at 60 frames.

Please note: 720p50 wont get you slow mo unless you conform in cinema tools. or any other programme.

DVCAM, handy for live gigs which i find.

another handy feature. not worth the extra, as you will be spending a bit on media/ mounts etc.

[John Eithcowich]

Thanks, Junior, I contacted your sales rep. Regarding the improved audio -- how improved is it? I shot a documentary with an old PD150 and the audio was fine, so I assume the EX1 can't be worse, right?

Thanks for the info, Chris. I also cradle the camera often when shooting hand held. It makes the motion so much smoother.

[Geoff Addis]

The EX1r is better balanced than the EX1. If you hand hold the camera for any length of time the unbalanced nature of the EX1 can be quite tiring wheras the newer version does not skew off vertical.

The viewfinder is much better on the EX1r, but still not as good as the LCD display.

Auto-white balance seems to be better, but I don't normally use this so can't be 100% sure.

The instant iris push button switch is an useful addition.

The twin threaded tripod plate is an improvement.

Overall, I consider the first point to be of greatest value, otherwise small, but useful improvements.

Geoff

[Alister Chapman]

The EX1R is definitely an improvement over the EX1. I had an EX1 and upgraded to an EX1R because I needed the image flip function for 3D applications.

The differences are small, but there is a fair number of them and they do make the camera nicer to use. It is nicer to hold, the switches are better, especially if your wearing gloves. The SD option may or may not be useful to you, frankly I only ever use it during demos. The HDMI out is one of the most useful features and I use picture cache a lot. I like the new card slot cover and the rear viewfinder is a massive improvement, it is at least useable now.
If someone came up to me with $1400 and a brand new EX1, I would keep my EX1R.

[Jim Stamos]

ive been going back and forth between the ex1r and the 3 mainly because of the excellant vf on the 3. never thought of the idea suggested of using the monopod collapsed and stick the end in a holder at waist level. i can see this helping greatly, plus id be paying 5899.00 vs 7826.00 for the ex3.
may borrow a friends ex1r and try the monopod method. i think i would still pay the xtra to get sxs cards vs. the sd cards.

[John Eithcowich]

Can anyone explain the viewfinder differences? I'm shooting quite a bit with it -- and less and less with the LCD -- so this may be an issue for me if the EX1's viewfinder is unusable.

Thanks!

[Chris Medico]

The one on the EX1 is much lower resolution than the EX1r.

The viewfinder on the EX1 is OK for framing but you can't judge focus or even exposure on the thing. To be honest its so bad its distracting. After trying to use it for any length of time I get agitated that Sony would put something so crappy on an otherwise great camera.

Have you ever looked at the viewfinder of a cheap $250 camcorder? It is not as good as one of those. Seriously. Unusable is being kind.

If you must use the rear viewfinder there no choice. You have to get the "R".

[Andy Wilkinson]

I agree with Chris. Viewfinder on the EX1 is not suitable, at all, for such a capable HD cam - especially regarding getting focus right. Go with EX1r if you can afford it - you won't regret it (for many other reasons/benefits over the EX1 as well). Lack of a decent viewfinder on the EX1 was one of the main reasons I bought the EX3 in July 2008 (i.e. bought long before the EX1r ever came out). I'm totally delighted with the EX3's viewfinder but that's out of your stated budget - unless you can get a used EX3 at a decent price, maybe? Let us know what you go for in the end.