Minimum size LCD for perfect focus?

Tom Hardwick · June 14th, 2011, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Stone

I settled with a daylight viewable Marshall, the V-LCD651STX with the Anton Bauer battery plate. I really like the economy of the menus of the Marshall but I wish it, like the TVLogic, had scopes. Daylight viewability won out for me.

And that's precisely what I'm after - daylight viewability above all else. Does this mean I wait for the affordable OLED or AMOLED? Are there no LED screens out there? Is LCD not up to it? My NX5 is near useless in daylight even with the brightness hugely bumped and the Hoodman type shield only works when the sun's off axis and the hood can actually shadow the screen.

tom.

Steve Game · June 14th, 2011, 01:16 AM

Tom,

I'm sure you can remember the Sony hybrid LCD screens as used on the FX1/Z1 and some of the other early HDV cameras. They could be viewed in full sunlight. Why did Sony abandon them?

Steve

Tom Hardwick · June 14th, 2011, 01:32 AM

Steve, I want to copy your post in one foot high bold upper case and have it printed on banners that I can fly past Sony HQ. I've 'upgraded' from a Z1 screen that I could view in direct sunlight to a smaller, horribly touch-screen coated 'improvement' on the NX5. Did no-one take the current Z1 and the NX5 prototype out into the Sony car park and say, 'Whoa, hold on a minute here guys!'?

I don't give a fig for hi-res. In a run 'n' gun situation I just want to see what my lens is framing. Is that too much to ask? Even diddly Panasonic palmcorders have better screens - I know, I've had them side-by-side.

tom.

Vito DeFilippo · June 14th, 2011, 07:49 AM

It's not just the NX5, Tom. I'm shooting recently on a Z7 and the screen is terrible compared to my Z1. I can never tell when anything's in focus. Hate it.

Sony really dropped the ball on the screen for these cameras.

Dave Sperling · June 14th, 2011, 10:16 AM

Seems to me that the EX screens have the same daylight reflective feature that the Z1 had, though I never had any luck with the Z1 in judging exposure or focus with the reflective screen while bright sunlight was hitting it. It was really just for composition. The few times I tried to use it for exposure I think I got fooled badly. When shooting on the beach I need to go with an EX3 viewfinder - or now presumably the FS100 (though haven't shot with it in bright sun, so I'm just guessing.)

Tom Hardwick · June 14th, 2011, 10:32 AM

Dave, the Z1's screen is much better for composition than the EX1's in bright sunlight. It's nowhere near as sharp mind you, and this might account for it's far better visibility. Here's two pictures taken for a recent video article showing the strange 'multi-coating' colours that disrupt the image. Same with the NX5 and Z7 by the way.

Dave Sperling · June 14th, 2011, 11:29 AM

Hi Tom,
Thanks for the pix! Funny, having gone from Z1 to V1 to EX1, I never did a side-by side of the screens like that. I suppose they're always tweaking something from one model to the next, and I never really noticed the differences that way before.
Best,
Dave S

Steve Game · June 15th, 2011, 01:24 AM

It's not just the FX1 and Z1 that have the hybrid screen, my HC3 has one as well, and it has a touch screen, so that feature does not prevent viewing in sunlight either. What's the excuse for the NX5?

Steve

Nick Wilcox-Brown · June 15th, 2011, 02:28 PM

I may be a little late to this thread, but recently picked up the TVLogic 5.6" with the WFM. I went around a major trade show back in March and this monitor blew the rest away in terms of colour accuracy, image quality and features. The Waveform Monitor is impressive.

I'm new to the EX3 and impressed with the magnified viewfinder (after using an XF305), but the zoomed in view is not great + only one button for magnify as standard, so adding the external monitor has made a difference.

I use the TVL by choice in 'Pixel to Pixel' mode in greyscale, giving a very accurate way to focus on the middle area (or any other) of the screen and then use the camera LCD for composition.

The only weakness of the TVL is that the 'Focus assist' peaking is not great and the HDMI / SDI pass-through is currently only for 59.94. Hmm not helpful in PAL country.

Max Bettelle · August 2nd, 2011, 04:11 AM

Hello, i am using a SONY PVM740 7.4" OLED Monitor. Absolutely breathless, and you have full control of the peaking. Being exactly half resolution of fullHD (so it is 960 x 540) there are no scaling artifacts and the picture is far superior than a 1280x720 or similar...

Barry J. Anwender · August 2nd, 2011, 02:01 PM

Max, please comment on how the Sony OLED holds up in bright day light? That would be helpful. Thanks.

Malcolm Hamilton · October 3rd, 2011, 03:15 PM

Hi there,

I'd like to ask about one feature that I'd like to have, but haven't seen mentioned on this thread.
(I'm considering either the SmallHD or the TVLogic, by the way)

I use two cameras (my EX-1 and a Canon XF100 when shooting conferences) and would like to be able to check the shots for both cameras, from where I'm standing (sometimes sitting) with my EX-1.
Would both of these displays allow me to do this? So I'd just have to click a switch and I'd see what my Canon is shooting? (maybe even do this via a remote, so there's no chance of jiggling the camera).

Also... I'm wanting one of these things mostly for double-checking focus. Both of them have focus-assist. But would anyone on this forum who's tried both displays care to comment on which works better in this respect?
Thanks,
Malcolm

Keith Moreau · October 3rd, 2011, 03:22 PM

I have the SmallHD DP6 SDI edition, it has HDMI, and Component inputs as well. I often have 2-3 cameras connected through the different interfaces. EX1 has SDI and Component, XF100 has I believe, HDMI output as well, so you could switch. You need to go to the input menu and select the input you want, it takes a couple of seconds if you are familiar with it.

Malcolm Hamilton · October 3rd, 2011, 03:33 PM

By the way, I just saw on the SmallHD site, that it's only the more expensive version that uses SDI.
The cheaper one has HDMI, Component and Composite Inputs and... I don't know what Output(s); it only mentions HDSDI (Loop Through), but that's only for the more expensive DP6-SDI.

I'm on the TVLogic site right now, and it seems to me that the less expensive TVLogic monitor (the VFM-056W) has a BNC SDI input (and an HDMI input) and a BNC SDI (loop-through) output (along with Component, Composite and S-Video).

I don't know how or if any of this affects my question (about being able to monitor two cameras via this one monitor).

regards, Malcolm

Keith Moreau · October 3rd, 2011, 03:39 PM

The DP6 only has an output for SDI (loop through) They offer an inexpensive self-powered HDMI splitter if you need to do something else with the HDMI signal, such as record or display off of it.

June 14th, 2011, 01:16 AM	#32
Steve Game Major Player Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: London, UK Posts: 353	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? Tom, I'm sure you can remember the Sony hybrid LCD screens as used on the FX1/Z1 and some of the other early HDV cameras. They could be viewed in full sunlight. Why did Sony abandon them? Steve

June 14th, 2011, 01:32 AM	#33
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? Steve, I want to copy your post in one foot high bold upper case and have it printed on banners that I can fly past Sony HQ. I've 'upgraded' from a Z1 screen that I could view in direct sunlight to a smaller, horribly touch-screen coated 'improvement' on the NX5. Did no-one take the current Z1 and the NX5 prototype out into the Sony car park and say, 'Whoa, hold on a minute here guys!'? I don't give a fig for hi-res. In a run 'n' gun situation I just want to see what my lens is framing. Is that too much to ask? Even diddly Panasonic palmcorders have better screens - I know, I've had them side-by-side. tom.

June 14th, 2011, 07:49 AM	#34
Vito DeFilippo Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 1,585	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? It's not just the NX5, Tom. I'm shooting recently on a Z7 and the screen is terrible compared to my Z1. I can never tell when anything's in focus. Hate it. Sony really dropped the ball on the screen for these cameras. __________________ . http://www.nosmallroles.com

June 14th, 2011, 10:16 AM	#35
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? Seems to me that the EX screens have the same daylight reflective feature that the Z1 had, though I never had any luck with the Z1 in judging exposure or focus with the reflective screen while bright sunlight was hitting it. It was really just for composition. The few times I tried to use it for exposure I think I got fooled badly. When shooting on the beach I need to go with an EX3 viewfinder - or now presumably the FS100 (though haven't shot with it in bright sun, so I'm just guessing.)

June 14th, 2011, 10:32 AM	#36
Tom Hardwick Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Billericay, England UK Posts: 4,711	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? Dave, the Z1's screen is much better for composition than the EX1's in bright sunlight. It's nowhere near as sharp mind you, and this might account for it's far better visibility. Here's two pictures taken for a recent video article showing the strange 'multi-coating' colours that disrupt the image. Same with the NX5 and Z7 by the way. Attached Thumbnails

June 14th, 2011, 11:29 AM	#37
Dave Sperling Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tinton Falls, NJ Posts: 780	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? Hi Tom, Thanks for the pix! Funny, having gone from Z1 to V1 to EX1, I never did a side-by side of the screens like that. I suppose they're always tweaking something from one model to the next, and I never really noticed the differences that way before. Best, Dave S

June 15th, 2011, 01:24 AM	#38
Steve Game Major Player Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: London, UK Posts: 353	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? It's not just the FX1 and Z1 that have the hybrid screen, my HC3 has one as well, and it has a touch screen, so that feature does not prevent viewing in sunlight either. What's the excuse for the NX5? Steve

June 15th, 2011, 02:28 PM	#39
Nick Wilcox-Brown Major Player Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bristol, UK Posts: 231	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? I may be a little late to this thread, but recently picked up the TVLogic 5.6" with the WFM. I went around a major trade show back in March and this monitor blew the rest away in terms of colour accuracy, image quality and features. The Waveform Monitor is impressive. I'm new to the EX3 and impressed with the magnified viewfinder (after using an XF305), but the zoomed in view is not great + only one button for magnify as standard, so adding the external monitor has made a difference. I use the TVL by choice in 'Pixel to Pixel' mode in greyscale, giving a very accurate way to focus on the middle area (or any other) of the screen and then use the camera LCD for composition. The only weakness of the TVL is that the 'Focus assist' peaking is not great and the HDMI / SDI pass-through is currently only for 59.94. Hmm not helpful in PAL country. __________________ Nick Wilcox-Brown, Film-maker and Photographer https://nickwb.com https://wildphotographer.co.uk

August 2nd, 2011, 04:11 AM	#40
Max Bettelle New Boot Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Venice ITALY Posts: 22	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? Hello, i am using a SONY PVM740 7.4" OLED Monitor. Absolutely breathless, and you have full control of the peaking. Being exactly half resolution of fullHD (so it is 960 x 540) there are no scaling artifacts and the picture is far superior than a 1280x720 or similar...

August 2nd, 2011, 02:01 PM	#41
Barry J. Anwender Major Player Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Saskatchewan, Canada Posts: 382	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? Max, please comment on how the Sony OLED holds up in bright day light? That would be helpful. Thanks.

October 3rd, 2011, 03:15 PM	#42
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? Hi there, I'd like to ask about one feature that I'd like to have, but haven't seen mentioned on this thread. (I'm considering either the SmallHD or the TVLogic, by the way) I use two cameras (my EX-1 and a Canon XF100 when shooting conferences) and would like to be able to check the shots for both cameras, from where I'm standing (sometimes sitting) with my EX-1. Would both of these displays allow me to do this? So I'd just have to click a switch and I'd see what my Canon is shooting? (maybe even do this via a remote, so there's no chance of jiggling the camera). Also... I'm wanting one of these things mostly for double-checking focus. Both of them have focus-assist. But would anyone on this forum who's tried both displays care to comment on which works better in this respect? Thanks, Malcolm

October 3rd, 2011, 03:22 PM	#43
Keith Moreau Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brisbane, California Posts: 530	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? I have the SmallHD DP6 SDI edition, it has HDMI, and Component inputs as well. I often have 2-3 cameras connected through the different interfaces. EX1 has SDI and Component, XF100 has I believe, HDMI output as well, so you could switch. You need to go to the input menu and select the input you want, it takes a couple of seconds if you are familiar with it.

October 3rd, 2011, 03:33 PM	#44
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? By the way, I just saw on the SmallHD site, that it's only the more expensive version that uses SDI. The cheaper one has HDMI, Component and Composite Inputs and... I don't know what Output(s); it only mentions HDSDI (Loop Through), but that's only for the more expensive DP6-SDI. I'm on the TVLogic site right now, and it seems to me that the less expensive TVLogic monitor (the VFM-056W) has a BNC SDI input (and an HDMI input) and a BNC SDI (loop-through) output (along with Component, Composite and S-Video). I don't know how or if any of this affects my question (about being able to monitor two cameras via this one monitor). regards, Malcolm

October 3rd, 2011, 03:39 PM	#45
Keith Moreau Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Brisbane, California Posts: 530	Re: Minimum size LCD for perfect focus? The DP6 only has an output for SDI (loop through) They offer an inexpensive self-powered HDMI splitter if you need to do something else with the HDMI signal, such as record or display off of it.