DV Info Net

DV Info Net (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/)
-   Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-pro-handhelds/)
-   -   PMW-EX* Successor? (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-pro-handhelds/493661-pmw-ex-successor.html)

Mike Marriage March 28th, 2011 05:12 AM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen (Post 1632515)
That is impossible.

With some of the horrible line-skipping going on in DSLRs you may even find there is even an increase in quality by cropping in on the sensor. That is of course presuming the lens isn't a limiting factor. Has anyone tested it?

As sensor tech improves, maybe the solution to "one size fits all" camera will be a large, hi res sensor that gets cropped when small, fast zooms are required. I know Red already has a similar trick but it isn't without its compromises...yet.

Vincent Oliver March 28th, 2011 05:15 AM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bo Skelmose (Post 1632496)
Hi
Sad to hear that the EX1-3 will not be upgraded to 50 mbs. Hope still for PMW-EX350 ?

I have 50mbs per second on my Canon F305 which I use as a B camera to a EX3 system - I can't see any real quality difference between the two cameras. There are plenty of "old school" masters in this industry who will not accept that technology has moved on, and you can get away with almost anything - as long as you know how to use the tools.

Piotr Wozniacki March 28th, 2011 06:13 AM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by David C. Williams (Post 1632497)

On an OT note - why does the author of the linked article say the F3 is an APS-C format camera? Am I missing something here?

Piotr

Dave Sperling March 28th, 2011 06:50 AM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Hi Piotr,
I believe the usable width of the F3 is about 6% narrower than the width of APS-C (23.6mm vs 25.1mm) - hence the F3 should work fine with lenses that cover the APS-C frame.

Piotr Wozniacki March 28th, 2011 06:59 AM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Thanks Dave, but I still think it's a bit misleading to call it APS-C - in the case of actual implementation of this format (like in the NEX-VG10), you have a lot more megapixels - great for stills, but making the sensor much less sensitive and noisier in the 1920x1080 output.

Super 35mm is what best describes the F3 sensor; no compromise between still photography and film here.

Piotr

Dave Sperling March 28th, 2011 07:55 AM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Piotr,
Yes, I agree that calling it APS-C is misleading, not only because APS-C is theoretically a 3:2 ratio chip, but also because it seems that just about every still camera manufacturer that makes an APS-C camera uses slightly different dimensions...
I still, however, like the idea that it provides a reference as to which still lenses will cover the F3 Super35 chip.

Matt Davis March 28th, 2011 02:31 PM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
I'm a bit concerned about the 'APS-C' moniker, as there's a Nikon variety and a Canon variety. The former is a little larger, so Nikkor APS-C lenses may work with F3 where Canon APS-C lenses may have a touch of vignetting. This is only armchair theory, not practical tests. Not sure if to sell the Canon or the Nikkor 17-55 f2.8 at the moment. (joking)

I'm very happy with my DSLR kit, but my EX1-Rs are still the go-to cameras in my niche. Was really happy for the 1/2" DoF in today's shoot. FS100 would have been a real handful (single camera must cover 6 people in conversation, shoot 20 mins, plus 5 mins retakes and some cutaway reaction shots to paper over the inevitable cracks in a 10 minute edit).

As Marcus says, great to replace a DSLR with the FS100 if you currently use a DSLR as a wide or B-Roll camera.

What would I want out of an EX1-S? Less noise, 50 Mbits, better mic pre-amps, 1080p50/60. An EX3-S? Ditto, maybe at 2/3rd inch. ;-)

Don Parrish March 28th, 2011 03:42 PM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Does the EX1 and EX3's 500 dollar rebate that ends on the 31st indicate anything ?? I think we all tend to associate rebates with clearing the shelves don't we ?? And remember, Canon has dropped the XLH line and introduced the XF line, the ball is in Sony's court. Listening to the EX3 owners the camera could use an update in the form of cheaper memory, better switches and an upgrade to the baseplate.

Les Wilson March 28th, 2011 06:22 PM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Who knows...Sometimes rebates are done to boost sales... in this case, it changes the EX vs XF economics quite a bit. I think Canon will forever hold the "long in the tooth" record with it keeping the GL-2 on the market for the whole lifespan of HDV. lol

I think I'm with Alistair on this one: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...ml#post1617448

Alan McInnes March 28th, 2011 10:59 PM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alister Chapman (Post 1632444)
I think were forgetting that the laws of physics have a part to play here. Most broadcast lenses are f1.8, fast lenses. They are also 14x or greater zooms and they are parfocal, that means the focus does not change throughout the zoom range. With a larger sensor, you need larger glass elements to achieve the same f-stop. Large lens elements are expensive to make, especially if you want low chromatic aberration. A f1.8 (or even f2.8) parfocal 14x zoom lens for super 35mm will be very big, very heavy and extremely expensive. While large sensor cameras may be getting more sensitive, when it comes to low light performance the lens is crucial. For that reason alone for many applications large sensor cameras are not going to replace 2/3" and 1/2" cameras as general purpose, all round cameras any time soon.

Yes we will probably see a dramatic increase in the use of large sensor camcorders in some genres such as documentary, corporate and drama. But for sports, news and event television the 2/3" sensor and 1/2" sensor will remain the sweet spot for many years to come.

I think there will be many people that will rush out to buy one of the new super35 camcorders only to be frustrated by having to change lenses for different shots or not having servo zooms or parfocal lenses. Eventually they will get fed up with all the extra hassle, especially if shooting on a tight schedule or on the run and end up going back to a more conventional camcorder.

I love my PMW-F3, but I'm definitely not ready to give up my EX1 yet.

I doubt we will see a new EX at NAB. I suspect the engineers have been busy on the F3. Maybe next year, but I doubt it will ever be 50Mb/s.

I wasn't aware of this issue and can appreciate how lens costs can become the driving force when lenses can cost almost as much as the camera. The Fujinon lens I would like for my EX3 is more than I paid for the EX3! I love my EX3, but would love to have the shallow DOF on many an occasion. I just can't get what I want, even with the fast 1.9 f lens that comes with the EX3. I would love to get the F3, but I can't imagine what the package would cost with the proposed 10x zoom lens. As it is, we may be the only school of our size with an EX3.

Andrew Stone March 28th, 2011 11:25 PM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Alan,

The F3 has a native or equivalent ISO rating of 800 while the EX series cams are around 320 (depending on your framerate and gamma setting).

You can operate an F3 with a stills zoom lens using a Nikon lens mount adapter and get some mighty fine lenses for anywhere between $300 and $2000. When you get into the Cine lenses that is when the pricing gets stratospheric.

You might want to consider the NEX FS-100 which is based in part on the Sony F3 but has a price point that you may find acceptable. Poke around DVinfo, there is a lot of info on the F3 including talk about lenses and there is emerging info on the FS-100 that I just mentioned.

Andrew Bower March 29th, 2011 04:45 AM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Don Parrish (Post 1632696)
Does the EX1 and EX3's 500 dollar rebate that ends on the 31st indicate anything ?? I think we all tend to associate rebates with clearing the shelves don't we ?? And remember, Canon has dropped the XLH line and introduced the XF line, the ball is in Sony's court. Listening to the EX3 owners the camera could use an update in the form of cheaper memory, better switches and an upgrade to the baseplate.

I'd also like to see the same 'r' upgrades done to the EX3 as the EX1r has. In particular the record buffer (or whatever it is called on the EX1r).

Brian Drysdale March 29th, 2011 09:40 AM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Sony have no need to rush out a new camera, perhaps a minor upgrade at most. They've got an extremely successful product that can be easily upgraded to broadcast HD using a Nanoflash. More likely they'll be going after the Canon XF305, they sold a lot of Z1s to the broadcasters.

Doug Jensen March 29th, 2011 10:03 AM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Les Wilson (Post 1632744)
Who knows...Sometimes rebates are done to boost sales

True. The fiscal year for most Japanese companies, including Sony, ends on March 31st, and that is the reason why you typically see promotions from Sony in March of every year. That is what Sony themselves have told me several times.

Vincent Oliver March 29th, 2011 10:07 AM

Re: PMW-EX* Successor?
 
I would also imagine that camera sales are not that buoyant at the moment, anything to keep the sales afloat wouldn't do any harm.

( No pun's intended in this post, re Japan tsunami)


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:25 AM.

DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2019 The Digital Video Information Network