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Old September 19th, 2011, 05:26 PM   #1
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My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

I'm working on a fitness program for Latin America. I'm having the hardest time getting my EX1Rs to look good on my Hispanic talent. I can't seem to get rid of the yellow in the skin tone. Here's some screen grabs shot during a rough lighting test during set construction.

Sequence 01.Still001 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still002 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still003 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

I'm using fluorescent softboxes for key and fills at 5600K and some Coollights 5600K Fresnels for rims.

EX1 WB is set to 5600K. Picture Profile is "Standard" factory settings and just changed the matrix to FL Light, gama is set to CINE3 and skin tone detail is on at -40 intensity. I have a bunch of other picture profiles, but this seemed to get us the closest...

But we're still not close to satisfied, and I'm hoping you all can help me get more natural skin tone.
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Old September 19th, 2011, 05:47 PM   #2
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

It is a well known fact that the picture profile that comes set out of the box has a yellowish hue. Search and you'll find discussions. Look in the picture profile sticky here for some profiles.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...e-recipes.html

Some other discussion threads:
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...edit-post.html

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...r-weekend.html

I use the one in the vortex training DVD as well as true color.

Last edited by Les Wilson; September 19th, 2011 at 05:55 PM. Reason: typos. added links to other threads
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Old September 19th, 2011, 06:19 PM   #3
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

Also try white balancing rather than using the 5600k preset. In many cases the results are very different given the way the individual color components are handled.
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Old September 19th, 2011, 07:23 PM   #4
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

Thanks guys,

Hmm... I've tried every preset (I think) that's listed in the "recipes" forum on this site (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...e-recipes.html).

Vortex (Jensen's) seems to add a bit of green plus the yellow. It's far worse for this setup.

B. Raven's seems to be the best, but still yellow.

Wolfgang's messed with the detail too much, but the color was still off, but off in a different way.

Bloom's is similar to what I"m using.

Oliver N's makes her look dead.

I've used a lot of these presets for other situations fine, but for this studio setup, I can't seem to kick the yellow out of the shot and get it more healthy looking.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
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Old September 19th, 2011, 08:07 PM   #5
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

Have you considered using some violet and pink gels on the key lights to kill some of the yellow?

With that strong blue background you will be making the natural yellows in their skin tones stand out.

You will want to kill that with some opposing color in the key (opposing to yellow = violet then add some pink.red to make them look more healthy).

Once you do that I expect you will be able to tweak the camera and make them look more healthy and less jaundiced.
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Old September 19th, 2011, 08:18 PM   #6
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

Oh, yeah. Good idea on the gels. I have some old magenta gels around, so I'll give those a shot. I might have to get some less intense magenta, but I'll give it a go. Great suggestion. I will try it and post some pics back.
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Old September 19th, 2011, 11:43 PM   #7
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

Ok, thanks to the gel suggestion by Chris, I'm making a lot of progress.

I happened to have some dark magenta gels from a previous project, so I slapped them on a 650w Fresnel and LED bank (my main key lights). Then opposite the key, I put another gel on my rim to the left/behind of the talent. The gels might be a bit too intense in the back, but it does add an artsy look... but it's a bit much for my taste.

I changed my PP to "A Ships. Cine V" and tweaked it a bit from there.

Sequence 01.Still007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Any further suggestions?
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Old September 20th, 2011, 01:19 AM   #8
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

Try doing a White balance with the blue background lights turned off. I suspect they may be your problem
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Old September 20th, 2011, 01:29 AM   #9
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

The colours were easy to correct in Premiere, using RGB curves, just add more Magenta. Here is a screen grab which took less than 30 seconds to achieve.
Attached Thumbnails
My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)-colour.jpg  
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Old September 20th, 2011, 01:48 AM   #10
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

Try using a blank picture profile with just the Matrix changed to FL-Light to get rid of the green/yellow cast from the fluorescent lamps (still present in many "pro" video lamps) or the Cinema Matrix for a more balanced look.

You can mix and match picture profile settings taking just the bits you need from each profile.
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Old September 20th, 2011, 02:18 AM   #11
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

The thing that always baffles me is why many videogarphers try to achieve the perfect colour balance in camera. Colour grading is an art form in itself and you can achieve so many different looks or moods. I personally try to shoot with as few adjustments as possible and then colour correct at a later stage.

If you have any feature film DVDs with bonus disks, then take a look at some of the behind the scenes clips. They are usually flat and dull. But after they have been colour graded they take on a totally different look. Most professional stills photographers are now shooting RAW capture with a view to colour correcting at a later stage, there is no reason why we shouldn't do the same, within the limits of our camera (I know RAW shooting is not an option for most video capture).

With so many guys now shooting video using HDSLR and other lower priced HD camcorders, I feel that to stay ahead in this game we have to offer something better than "out of the box colours" .
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Old September 20th, 2011, 08:27 AM   #12
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloyd Ubshura View Post
Ok, thanks to the gel suggestion by Chris, I'm making a lot of progress.

I happened to have some dark magenta gels from a previous project, so I slapped them on a 650w Fresnel and LED bank (my main key lights). Then opposite the key, I put another gel on my rim to the left/behind of the talent. The gels might be a bit too intense in the back, but it does add an artsy look... but it's a bit much for my taste.

I changed my PP to "A Ships. Cine V" and tweaked it a bit from there.

Sequence 01.Still007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!
Sequence 01.Still007 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!


Any further suggestions?
That is much better. Now they don't look sick. I personally like the little pop of magenta in the rim. Since you are using strong colors in the background you can blend them into the foreground with your colored backlight.

If you want to try a bit more you can play around with gels in the orange range of the color wheel on the key if you want to emphasize their tan more. Otherwise you are in good shape.
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Old September 20th, 2011, 09:25 AM   #13
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

I have just the opposite philosophy of my friend Vincent. I am not running a Hollywood studio and I don't have the time or interest in grading and waiting for renders. If I can adjust the camera's paint settings to give me the final look that I want for my video, then why waste time grading in post? I am not a professional colorist, nor do I want to piss away my time doing something I could have done with no extra effort at the the time of shooting. Plus, during shooting, the paint settings are being applied at the full bit-depth of the camera before any compression or signal quality reduction, so all things being equal, the results will be cleaner.

In my opinion, grading has become popular lately because DSLRs do not have any real paint settings to control the picture in the camera -- so you have to shoot flat. There's no choice. But that is not the case with my professional XDCAM camcorders. I can get the look I want in-camera. I don't need to "keep my options" open because I already have decided the look I want. In fact, I look at any grading or filtering that has to be done in post as failure on my part to shoot the video correctly in the first place. And I don't have to buy any extra colorizing software or drives to hold all the renders.

That's my philosophy.
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Old September 20th, 2011, 10:48 AM   #14
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vincent Oliver View Post
The thing that always baffles me is why many videogarphers try to achieve the perfect colour balance in camera. Colour grading is an art form in itself and you can achieve so many different looks or moods. I personally try to shoot with as few adjustments as possible and then colour correct at a later stage.

If you have any feature film DVDs with bonus disks, then take a look at some of the behind the scenes clips. They are usually flat and dull. But after they have been colour graded they take on a totally different look. Most professional stills photographers are now shooting RAW capture with a view to colour correcting at a later stage, there is no reason why we shouldn't do the same, within the limits of our camera (I know RAW shooting is not an option for most video capture).

With so many guys now shooting video using HDSLR and other lower priced HD camcorders, I feel that to stay ahead in this game we have to offer something better than "out of the box colours" .
I subscribe to this theory and workflow as well. I do edit and grade for a lot of other shooters and they are shocked by what a few clicks can do to the footage they thought looked good. And not that it needs fixing, just with the tools available these days, ANY footage can be improved. And beyond that, grading can influence the storytelling. Did a grading/motion graphics session with a producer who shoots and edits her own material just yesterday. It would have been fine as is but after i was done, she couldn't stop talking about how much better it looked. She'll be back anytime she has a project!
When I shoot either DSLR or xf300, i go for a flatter profile which makes matching other cameras much easier. Also, since I don't have a pro field monitor, I'd rather be safe on color settings than get bit by baking them in during shooting.
Valid points to both workflows but I also make more money when I grade! ;)
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Old September 21st, 2011, 03:32 AM   #15
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Re: My Exercise Model Looks Yellow (Settings Help)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
I have just the opposite philosophy of my friend Vincent. I am not running a Hollywood studio and I don't have the time or interest in grading and waiting for renders.

That's my philosophy.
The beauty of working with digital media is that we all have our own individual way of working, and if it works for you then who can say you are wrong. I know a few same day wedding shooters for whom grading would involve far too much time, so my working method would not be their first choice.

Yes I would love to have everything looking perfect straight out of camera, but this rarely happens, so for me the best option is to shoot as clean as possible and do my alterations at a later stage.

Grading is just another tool to master, but the extra effort is often well worth the extra time spent.

p.s. with a nVidia Cuda card and Premiere there is no waiting to render, my 1920 x 1080 files fly on the timeline.
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