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Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old April 3rd, 2012, 07:50 PM   #31
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

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Originally Posted by Andrew Bower View Post
Wait a minute, why is there only ONE CHIP?

Sony : PMW-100 (PMW100) : Technical Specifications : United Kingdom


Please, someone correct my thinking and tell me this will still replace my EX3...

Andrew
Sorry man. Single chip. Single ring. Fixed lens.There's no way this will replace your EX3 unless you're looking for a big change. They are drastically different cameras. The PMW-100 is just a foreshadowing of what may replace your EX3.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 08:42 PM   #32
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

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Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen View Post
But my FS100 shoots 1080/60P. So does the NX70.
They do? If so, then I stand corrected, thank you.

From where I sit, it's damn difficult to keep up with everything that's going on.
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 08:47 PM   #33
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

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Originally Posted by Michael Kraus View Post
Sorry man. Single chip. Single ring. Fixed lens.There's no way this will replace your EX3 unless you're looking for a big change. They are drastically different cameras. The PMW-100 is just a foreshadowing of what may replace your EX3.
SIGH.

I had my doubts when I read the lens was only a x10.
I would really love a 50Mbs camera with the NX5/Z5 G lens.
...and 1/2" or larger chips
...and 2 card slots
...and three rings
and 2 screw tripod mount
and removable zoom rocker (like the FS100)
and, and, and...
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 10:35 PM   #34
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

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Originally Posted by Andrew Bower View Post
Chris,
Doesn't the new FS700 record 1920x1080 at 60p? Is it still considered an NXCAM or are they doing something different with the codec?
The AVCHD 2.0 spec, which is supported by quite a few Sony NXCAM models (NX70, FS100 , FS700) supports 1080 50/60p in the "PS" mode with a max bit rate of 28 Mbps.

Panny is supposedly going to add that mode to the AC130 and AC160 "soon".

More info about the mode here:
AVCHD INFORMATION WEB SITE

So yes, the cameras will record to that mode, but the HDMI / HD-SDI output is still limited to 1080 30p "immersed" in 1080 60i. (I'm oversimplifying a bit).

The FS700 goes beyond the AVCHD 2.0 with some proprietary overcranking. It will give full 1080 slow-mo, but only in bursts of 10 seconds or so. But, considering the mucho overcranking, the result will be nearly a minute of smooth, beautiful slo-mo.

But, I'm a dinosaur that hates shallow DoF (and does not want to shoot at F16 to avoid it).

So, I was really hoping for an NX5 2.0.

Steve
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Old April 3rd, 2012, 10:48 PM   #35
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

@Ron Evans who wrote: "I share the view that Sony have all the bits I would like . They just don't have it in a single camera !!! My wish is still for a NX5 "plus" with Exmor-R sensors( lower noise level), full touch screen control, 60P can't think of much else it would need for me."

I can't agree more. I'm holding off on jumping ship from Sony to Panny until NAB, hoping, desperately hoping for the "new NX5" ... But the NX5, despite the fact that your tweaks DO result in a much better image, is still not a full 1080 "1000 TV lines" cam. Have a look at the details of the spec , and the design of the sensor, the element count. It is not quite as sharp as newer cams.

Adam Wilt of ProVideoCoalition mentions this here:
http://provideocoalition.com/index.p...ocket_science/

"...Sonys? It’s interesting to note that at least some of the 1/3” Sonys aren’t quite full-res; the NX5 uses “ClearVid” diagonal-array sensors that give very good resolution, but it’s not quite full HD. You may have to move up to the 1/2” EX1/EX3 line before you get an honest 1920x1080 photosites behind the lens."

Waaah! I want a big zoom, big glass up front, fixed lens (interchanageable is BAD here in the dusty desert), smallish sensor for deep DoF, 422 10-bit HDMI output, AVCHD 2.0 for the 1080 60p, silky zoom rocker, expanded focus (not just stupid peaking which can fool you and blow shots), THREE rings (not a stupid selectable ring), 4.0" LCD ON THE HANDLE out of the way. , SDXC slots with relay or dual record. Why can't I have what I want? WAAAAHhhh!
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Old April 4th, 2012, 12:03 AM   #36
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
They do? If so, then I stand corrected, thank you.

From where I sit, it's damn difficult to keep up with everything that's going on.
Yeap, they do. Even my lowly VG20 shoots in 1920x1080 at 60p.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 12:32 AM   #37
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Sure does! Still best bang for the buck going too...

(secretly waiting for FS100 prices to drop)
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Old April 4th, 2012, 01:04 AM   #38
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd View Post
none of those codecs currently support 1080p60.
It's correct that no MPEG2 codec supports 1080p50/60, so we won't see it in XDCAM or Canon XF cameras. Moreover, no P2 camcorder has this format (it might be possible with future P2 cams). But NXCAM and AVCCAM use AVCHD, which is MPEG4, and 1080p50/60 is part of the relatively new standard "AVCHD 2.0". That's why some of these Sony and Panasonic camcorders are capable of shooting 1080p50/60.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Crye View Post
Panny is supposedly going to add that mode to the AC130 and AC160 "soon".
Well, the AC160 already shoots 1080p50/60 from the first day on, but without sound. So the upcoming new firmware will "only" add sound to the pictures. The AC130 can't shoot it now and will not get new firmware, so no way to work in 1080p50/60 with this camera. That's at least what Panasonic Broadcast told us some weeks ago.
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Old April 4th, 2012, 09:48 AM   #39
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

The NX5 sensor is not 1920x1080 true. Actual sensors in each chip are 960x540 depending on how one looks at the array. The 540 are on 1080 alternating lines. But the interpolated resolution is more than the sensor count for sure and will likely vary depending on the subject matter/exposure as the interpolating algorithm uses information from surrounding sensors to interpolate the full 1920x1080 pixels. The surrounding sensor outputs need to be significantly different for the algorithm to work. I think the main issue with the NX5 sensors is they are old technology and that may also apply to the DSP associated with them. Focus is thus also important as a slightly out of focus shot does not give the information needed by the interpolating algorithm. In other words there is a multiplier on how bad the image resolution appears to be for a slightly out of focus shot. Likewise under exposing or over exposing the shot also makes this process worse. Now I know my NX5U better I can certainly make it look good and know that in " full auto" its awful in comparison to my CX700 !!! All my uses for the NX5U are in the theatre, on a tripod, so I can take the time to get focus absolutely spot on and when this is the case it can intercut with an EX3 with no problems. When set up this way the NX5U does give a better picture than the CX700 or my XR500 which seem to lack the depth of image that the NX5U or EX3 give to the shot.

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Old April 4th, 2012, 11:50 PM   #40
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Looks like it uses the same VCL-HG0737K .7X wide angle lens designed for the HD1000U.
Attached Thumbnails
New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100-pmw-100.jpg   New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100-pmw-100-wideangle.jpg  

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Old April 5th, 2012, 05:45 PM   #41
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

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Originally Posted by Ron Evans View Post
The NX5 sensor is not 1920x1080 true. Actual sensors in each chip are 960x540 depending on how one looks at the array. The 540 are on 1080 alternating lines. But the interpolated resolution is more than the sensor count

Ron Evans
Hi Ron, I'm not disputing any of this, and your explanation is cogent and well-worded. And although I grew tired of having to tweak the NX5 image and do all you described to get it even close to the IQ of my little CX550V, the NX5 is a very solid cam with silky controls and a lot to love. One other thing that I did not like was the tiny 3.2" LCD that did not have as good a display as the other Sont 3.5" LCDs.

The old math guy in me can't help thinking about Nyquist's Theorem, though. I suspect that is partly the reason that cams with sensors with more elements will always have higher resolution (assuming similar DSPs, lenses, etc.) than cams that rely on interpolation with fewer elements. More raw data will win out against interpolation, no matter how fancy the algorithm.

I really like the Sony Exmor-R tech with the Bionz processor. So, this little PMW-100 out to be sharper and have better low-light performance than the NX5 - but it will not have the same telephoto performance, and no matter how good the chip, more glass up front = more light gathering power.

8 days till NAB 2012 - still holding out hope for a New NX5 ... wish I could afford to go!

Steve

Last edited by Stephen Crye; April 5th, 2012 at 05:46 PM. Reason: typo
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Old April 5th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #42
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Absolutely agree Steve. One reason given for having larger sensors is better low light performance only problem is all my little Sony's have better low light performance than the NX5U !!! Like I said before the weakness in the NX5U are the sensors and I would like 60P and the other touch features of the smaller Sony cams.
Still not sure about the PMW-100. Being suspicious of Sony even though ALL my cameras are Sony , I feel the PMW-100 is another variant on the consumer line with the PMW codecs. Now a 1/2" single sensor in a NX5 body would be something else !!!

Wonder if Sony has anything else to show in the next few weeks.

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Old April 6th, 2012, 02:09 PM   #43
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Sony product brochure courtesy of SlashCam:

http://www.slashcam.de/files/PMW-100_Broschuere.pdf

Has some good details, confirms there is expanded focus and that SD cards can be used if you buy a SxS to SD adapter.

I'm really torn - the ergonomics of this cam look great, has some interesting features such as frame recording, which, if it can be combined with the interval recording *undercranking* will produce much better fast motion than other methods where each interval must contain enough frames for the Long GoP thing...

But I really like 1080 60p! (sob)

Steve
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File Type: pdf PMW-100_Broschuere.pdf (1.27 MB, 329 views)
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Old April 6th, 2012, 03:34 PM   #44
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Has full 1920x1080 sensor but like you, wish the rest of the features were like the NX30. Maybe that sensor in the NX5U !!!

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Old April 7th, 2012, 11:56 AM   #45
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

According to the literature it's a single sensor with 1920 x 1080 pixels which is very disappointing as this means bayer or clear-vid, either way the resolution is likely to be some way below that of an EX1 or EX3.
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