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Old June 13th, 2012, 03:29 AM   #91
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

I agree that it does have the full compliment of XDCAM features and the 4:2:2 50Mb/s codec. I do perhaps see why a broadcaster with a bunch of PMW-500's may use the PMW100 to get the same codec, but the irony is that the EX1 or EX3 with the 35Mb/s codec produces a far better image that would be a much closer match to the PMW-500 than the PMW100.
For a moden camcorder the size of the PMW100 to eat through relatively expensive, high capacity batteries as it does, would possibly be quite a shock for someone coming from an NXCAM where the low cost standard battery lasts for 6 hours or more. This is a next generation, compact, single chip camera, much smaller than an EX1, yet it get's through batteries just as fast, if not faster.

The PMW100 was obviously designed to hit a price point and specific market niche. It does this at the expense of quality IMHO. When I tested the NX30, PMW100 and FS700 together I was impressed by both the NX30 and FS700 and really disappointed by the PMW100. I don't think the image quality is worth $4k, what's the point of having Hypergamma when the sensor doesn't have enough dynamic range to take advantage of it. What point is there making bigger files with this great codec when the imager can't take advantage of it? Sorry, single chip sensors have improved dramatically recently, but this one appears to come from an earlier generation.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 09:40 AM   #92
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Hey Doug,
Thanks for posting footage. I am still trying to decide what cam to get (still shoot on fx-1). I have a budget of about 5K, which would include the cam plus extra batteries and recording card. Maybe you or someone else can answer a couple more questions:

1. Can you post some of the "Night Footage" shot with the PMW-100?
2. Since I have the fx-1, I have a bunch of NP-F970 batteries. Would these work with the PMW-100? (Trying to add up costs, and this could save me some cash if they work).
3. What kind of card did you use to record the posted footage? And what exact recording settings on the cam? This is all new to me since I simply shoot on tape now, and capture to Premiere as an AVI file.
4. What other cameras out there should I maybe be looking at other than the PMW-100? I shoot: home tours, plays, occasional interviews, just a wide variety of things. Do not wanna go DSLR route.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 10:01 AM   #93
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Rick,

To me it looks like the NX5 seems a lot more reasonable to you. It does take your NP-F970's the PMW-100 doesn't. It offers an uncompressed HD-SDI output so if you find out 50 Mbit is a must-have for you there is always the option of an external recorder. Besides that, the NX5 seems allround a lot better camera than the PMW-100. 3 instead of 1 sensor makes a difference in contrast, colours and lowlight capabillities. The two additional sensors do make sense in my opinion. If I would be in your situation the NX5 would be my bet....

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Old June 13th, 2012, 12:47 PM   #94
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Miller View Post
1. Can you post some of the "Night Footage" shot with the PMW-100?
2. Since I have the fx-1, I have a bunch of NP-F970 batteries. Would these work with the PMW-100? (Trying to add up costs, and this could save me some cash if they work).
3. What kind of card did you use to record the posted footage? And what exact recording settings on the cam? This is all new to me since I simply shoot on tape now, and capture to Premiere as an AVI file.
4. What other cameras out there should I maybe be looking at other than the PMW-100? I shoot: home tours, plays, occasional interviews, just a wide variety of things. Do not wanna go DSLR route.
Rick,
Gabor makes a good case for the NX5, but fails to take into consideration all of the advanced features and workflow advantages that the PMW-100 offers. Please go back and read my first paragraph in post #90 and then compare those features to the NX5. In addition to all of that, the PMW-100 is part of the XDCAM line and shares it's DNA with all of the rest of the XDCAM products -- right up to the $35,000 PDW-F800. If you have not used XDCAM you cannot fully appreciate how much superior it is to all of the tapeless alternatives. XDCAM is the future for professional production. That's why Canon uses it now, JVC, Arri, and others to come.

Sure I wish the PMW-100 had three chips instead of one, but to look at that shortcoming and ignore all the other things it offers is short sighted. It can produce good images and it wouldn't even be available for under $4K it had all the specifications that people wish it had. That's why Sony has dozens of cameras to choose from at many price points.

To answer your questions:

1) Have not shot any night footage yet. And I'm not sure if are you talking about normal footage in low light, or using the special NightShot function?

2) As Gabor says, no they won't work. But the camera comes with a BP-U30 battery and AC adapter/charger. A nice thing about the PMW-100 is that it is a 12v camera.

4) the footage I posted was shot on an SxS card and a XQD card with an adapter. The camera can also use SDHC cards and memory sticks. The settings were 50Mbps 422 24 fps. 1920x1080 for regular footage, and 1280x720 for the slow-mo shots. XDCAM is compatible with all of the NLEs.

5) The next best camera to the PMW-100 is the PMW-EX1R which shares a lot of the same cabablities and functions. You are correct to steer clear of DSLRs. And, based on what you shoot, I would recommend steering clear of the NEX-FS100. You would hate it.

The PMW-100 is a GIGANTIC step up from your FX1 in every single way you want to compare them. Just getting rid of tape will save you tons of work and probably pay for the new camera right there alone.
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Old June 13th, 2012, 08:35 PM   #95
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Miller View Post
Hey Doug,
Thanks for posting footage. I am still trying to decide what cam to get (still shoot on fx-1). I have a budget of about 5K, which would include the cam plus extra batteries and recording card. Maybe you or someone else can answer a couple more questions:

1. Can you post some of the "Night Footage" shot with the PMW-100?
2. Since I have the fx-1, I have a bunch of NP-F970 batteries. Would these work with the PMW-100? (Trying to add up costs, and this could save me some cash if they work).
3. What kind of card did you use to record the posted footage? And what exact recording settings on the cam? This is all new to me since I simply shoot on tape now, and capture to Premiere as an AVI file.
4. What other cameras out there should I maybe be looking at other than the PMW-100? I shoot: home tours, plays, occasional interviews, just a wide variety of things. Do not wanna go DSLR route.
I moved from a FX1 to the NX5U and its great. Need to set up the picture profiles though as in stock settings it is not as good as the Sony consumer cameras that I have ( CX700, XR500 and an older SR11). I still use the 970 battery I had for the FX1 and it works just fine. I have the FMU128 which can record for a long time !!!! Not having to deal with tape is wonderful but you really do need to adopt a strict backup routine as there is no tape to fall back on if you delete the files !!! All my cameras are a big improvement from the FX1, the pictures are more detailed and much cleaner from video noise. In fact the NX5U is the one with the most noise CX700 the cleanest even at very high gain. 21db on the CX700 is much cleaner than 12db on the NX5U. The new sensors in the latest consumer cameras are very good.

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Old June 15th, 2012, 03:43 PM   #96
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Wow,....Alister, coming from you in particular, this is some pretty damaging testimony regarding the PMW100.

I would have thought it used the same sensor as the NX30 and NX70....how odd.

Also, if Canon can put Sony's 422 codec in a small camera that doesn't eat batteries and get hot, what happened to Sony? How hot can a single small sensor get?

I cant understand the PMW 100 at all. Any way I try to look at it. Is Sony is just selling a bad Handycam with a good codec??

If the NX30 truly outperforms the PMW 100 in image quality,...that just blows my mind that it was allowed to happen.

That 1/2.9 PMW 100 sensor....is it an EXMOR or an EXMOR-R sensor?

CT
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Old June 17th, 2012, 01:49 AM   #97
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Nice footage, Doug. I still want ND filters. And yes, you'd need to shoot in low light conditions before it's usable as a pro camera.

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Old June 17th, 2012, 05:53 AM   #98
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

I didn't say it couldn't shoot in low light, I just said I haven't had any reason to test that yet. The more I use the camera the more I am impressed with it.
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Old June 17th, 2012, 07:13 AM   #99
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

I'm interested in how this camera does indoors. Especially relative to the EX cameras.

If anyone hasn't seen it, Alister recently wrote a nice blog entry on dealing with manufacturer claims of resolution on single sensor cameras vs smaller sensor 3 chip designs:
Single Sensor Cameras: Pixel count is not the same as resolution! | XDCAM-USER.COM
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Old June 19th, 2012, 06:50 AM   #100
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

I'm posting this from Broadcast Asia where I had a bit more time with another PMW100. My thoughts on the build quality remain the same, but the camera here appears to be producing a better image than the one I tested back in the UK. I'm not seeing the blocky images I saw previously. While the pictures are not up to EX1 or EX3 standards I would say they are much closer to the NX30. I'm starting to suspect there was something up with the other camera I had, or I had it set up wrong. I'm going to shoot some stuff with it tomorrow to compare with the other footage I've shot.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 09:17 AM   #101
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Alister, good to know you are taking another look at it. As I have said all along, it is not up to EX1/3 standards, but it's a pretty nice camera for the money and a good value.

This illustrates why I NEVER comment on a camera until I have had a production model in my hands for a day or two to set it up properly and see what it can do. I think you rushed to judgement on this camera and unfairly damaged it's reputation. I'm glad you are taking another look.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 12:55 PM   #102
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Just returned form Infocomm 2012 in Vegas.

I spoke with the Sony guys there about the PMW 100 (it was not on display)

One of the things that appears odd when comparing the NX30 with the PMW 100 are the sensor types. The NX30 uses the 1/2.88 EXMOR "R" sensor and the PMW 100 uses a (slightly) smaller 1/2.9 EXMOR sensor.

What? Why didn't Sony at lease give the PMW 100 the EXMOR-R (back illuminated) sensor? Instead, they used an older sensor model? And....slightly smaller one at that?

They built the EXMOR-R sensor into the NX30 and it's clearly a superior sensor. (even by Sony's own admission)

What happened with this decision?

CT
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Old June 19th, 2012, 04:24 PM   #103
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Cliff, good questions. I don't have the answers.
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Old June 19th, 2012, 05:06 PM   #104
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

The PMW 100 has a nice form factor and allot of other neat features.

However, the PMW 100 could be "theoretically" a very dangerous model in Sony's entire lineup. If given too much, the camera could easily eat too deeply into other XDCAM sales numbers. We all know that Sony is EXTREMELY careful and mindful about canalizing it's carefully placed product line. (as it should be)

It is possible that placing an older and smaller EXMOR sensor in the PMW 100 would be enough to keep it from hurting upper Sony models. (like the EX1r and others)

"IF" Alister's tests are correct and the NX30's EXMOR-R sensor is outperforming the PMW 100's smaller and older sensor, than I would certainly say that this happened by Sony design and is no accident.

Think about it. Does Sony "really" want an EXCELLENT performing, small and cheap 422 camera on the market with many great features? From their point of view, that might not be a smart thing to build. (especially because they make so many other models above the PMW 100)

Now,..an excellent NX30 performing offers no threat to Sony's upper market because it's manual control is crippled enough to keep it away from may pros and offers plenty of sales protection to higher models.(The NX30 is great bit is just too small and "fiddly" for real pros)

This is all very, very interesting indeed!

Alister,..I'm dying to see your assessment of three cams that Sony gave you. I would tend to suspect that your initial PMW 100 impressions could possibly be correct....just because of the EXMOR and EXMOR-R sensor types alone!

Just my $.02 on all this...

CT
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Old June 20th, 2012, 08:49 AM   #105
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Re: New Sony XDCAM - the PMW-100

Having shot some test footage with the PMW100 here in Singapore I am much happier with the image quality. I have been informed that the original camera I looked at was a very early prototype and the camera here is a "near production" unit with improved firmware. It's not an EX1, but then I never expected that, but it is very much closer to the NX30. Noise is very low for a small single sensor camera. Now it does appear to fit the price point much better. I think this is a camera worth taking a look at for yourself and judging the quality for yourself.
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