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-   -   Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdcam-ex-pro-handhelds/513849-pmw-200-150-picture-profiles.html)

Malcolm Hamilton January 28th, 2013 06:32 PM

Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hi there,

From what I gather, EX picture profiles need to be tweaked/updated/changed for the new PMW line of cameras (like the PMW-200).

Would PMW owners be willing to help with this tweaking and updating? I'm sorry to say that I'm at a complete loss.

I'm attaching an Excel 'compendium' that might be a good starting point—it's a non-techie's attempt at piecing together a variety of Picture Profiles from the 40-some pages of EX PP 'recipes' found in a sticky thread at the top of our DFinfo page. I started it back in July of 2010 (posted it on page 39 of the sticky), and have spent most of today re-reading the whole thread and updating the list.

Even at that, I'm sure it's rife with mistakes—PP settings changed over the course of many months and many pages of posts, understandably... this is as much art as it is science, from what I gather. Correct those mistakes if you'd like and it'll then perhaps be a useful list for EX users.

But this is mostly a plea to people who are now using the new PMW-200 (and the 150 and maybe the 100).

Would you look at the 'list'? Some of these EX profiles may even be your own (I've attached the name of the author, I hope accurately, to each of the profiles). Would you, or someone else who knows about this subject please please update these profiles for PMW users?

And if someone wants to shorten this list (eg, if two or three of these are similar, maybe just one is needed), please go ahead. What I need, personally, is:
1. a good PP for shooting outside on a bright, sunny day (Which, if any, of Andy Shipsides' or Alister Chapman's or Ed Przyzycki's be best?)
2. a good PP for shooting inside, with overhead lights and tungsten lights I set up. (Would Bill Raven's or Philip Bloom's work for this?)
3. a good PP for shooting outside on a grey day
4. ... there are ten more in the list, I think, but I don't want to frighten anyone.

Some EX/PMW settings might be exactly the same; I don't know. Others have to be changed, because, in fact, there isn't the same choice offered in the PMW PP setting menu. MATRIX Select, for example. You now have a choice of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 instead of HI SAT or CINE. Similarly in V DTL Creation (in Detail): you have to choose between Y, NAM, G or G+R.

Anyway, here's hoping people will chime in!
Regards, Malcolm

Malcolm Hamilton January 29th, 2013 03:30 PM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
I see there've been 79 "views".
I've only checked this thread 76 times, so that means that there are at least three others out there who might be PMW-200 users, passionately interested (or at least mildly interested?) in Picture Profiles for this camera.
It can't be said, yet anyway, that this thread has gone "viral"... but given that the number of replies has gone from 0 to 1 (1 is more than a billion times 0, which is a big jump), it might just be trending that way!
Yours hopefully,
Malcolm

Chris Hurd January 29th, 2013 04:42 PM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
No worries Mal, I'm sure it'll pick up some steam!

Alister Chapman January 30th, 2013 08:34 AM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
One useful thing to know is that:
Hypergamma 4 is the same as Cinegamma 1, both use the extended range to 109% (Computer White)
Hypergamma 2 is the same as Cinegamma 2 both are broadcast safe, 100% (Video White).

This is my PMW-200 Asia Vivid profile. Punchy but neutral colours, deep blacks. Aimed for direct to air vivid look.

Name: AC-ASIA1
Matrix: ON, Select 1, Level +23, Phase -4, R-G +10, R-B +8, G-R -12, G-B -9, B-R -5, B-G -15.
HD Detail: Level -10, Frequency +15
Aperture Level +25
Gamma: Select HG3 (Use HG2 if you need broadcast safe)
Black -2
Black Gamma -65.

This is a variation on the above giving pleasing colours but with less deep blacks making it more flexible for grading and post work but less suitable for direct to air.

Name: AC-REAL1
Matrix: ON, Select 1, Level -8, Phase -4, R-G +10, R-B +8, G-R -12, G-B -9, B-R -5, B-G -15.
HD Detail: Level -10, Frequency +15
Aperture Level +25
Gamma: Select HG1
Black -2

Malcolm Hamilton January 30th, 2013 10:58 AM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
Alister—thank you so much for contributing, and for the note about hypergamma settings. If you don't mind expanding on that a bit: what would a Matrix 'Select' setting for an EX camera of 'HI SAT' translate to for a PMW (where the choice is from 1 to 6)?
I will use your AC-Asia setting because I don't like to do a lot of grading in post. Will it work nicely for both exterior (5600K) and interior shooting (let's say 3200K)?
I was leery (before getting it) about the absence of a rotating grip on the PMW-200, but as I think you said at the time, the better ergonomics—hand grip now being closer to the body of the camera—that was nothing to worry about. And there are many other features that I do really love. And now I've got at least one nice Picture Profile!
Regards, Malcolm

Alister Chapman January 30th, 2013 01:44 PM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
There is no direct equivalent to the HiSat matrix of the EX cameras on the PMW cameras. I find that Matrix 2 with saturation at about +20 gives a very similar result to the HiSat matrix setting of the EX's.

For most European/Western shooting I'd reduce the saturation of the Asia profile to level +5 as it's very highly saturated at +23. The profile is a general all purpose profile.

Malcolm Hamilton January 30th, 2013 02:20 PM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
Hi Alister,
Sorry to be so slow to grasp this. I now understand that the lower the number in MATRIX Select, the more saturated the look. Accordingly, your vivid Asia profile had a Select number of 1.
You're also saying that for most shooting in Europe and North America, a less-vivid look might be better, and that means a Select number of 5. But leave the MATRIX Level at +23, correct? That will still give a fairly vivid look to the pictures. I think that's what you're saying.
If that is indeed the case, then would your AC/LESS-VIVID (I know there's a better name) Picture Profile look like this:

Name: AC/LESS-VIVID
Matrix: ON, Select 5, Level +23, Phase -4, R-G +10, R-B +8, G-R -12, G-B -9, B-R -5, B-G -15.
HD Detail: Level -10, Frequency +15
Aperture Level +25
Gamma: Select HG3 (Use HG2 if you need broadcast safe)
Black -2
Black Gamma -65

Thanks so much,
Malcolm

Alister Chapman January 30th, 2013 11:08 PM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
No, the matrix numbers do not determine saturation. The 6 different matricies alter the way the colours are mixed and tweak the tonal range, The saturation control adjusts the saturation.

1: SMPTE-240M equivalent
2: ITU-709 equivalent
3: SMPTE WIDE equivalent
4: NTSC equivalent
5: EBU equivalent
6: PAL equivalent

Strictly speaking the correct matrix for HD productions is No2 as this gives a matching colour gamut to REC-709 Gamma, but if your tweaking the matrix vectors, then it doesn't make a big difference which matrix you use. Just use the one that gives the closest match to the colour range you want. I would probably avoid 3 and 4 as these have narrower color gamuts than the others.

Anthony Trotter February 10th, 2013 05:30 AM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
I, too, could use some suggestions for picture profile settings for the PMW-200. I’ve programmed in Alister’s “AC-ASIA1” setting that I found here and “VORTEX-N” and “VORTEX-C” that I picked up from the “Mastering Sony's PMW-200, 160, 150, 100 XDCAM Cameras” DVD. These are great settings and I’ll use them when the situation calls for them. But I shoot primarily in Asia where there’s an abundance of light sources which I cannot control (neon, 50hz fluorescents, giant screens, etc.) which require using the shutter to compensate for flicker. This greatly reduces the exposure and I’ve found the aforementioned profile settings too dark to get the right results. Can any of y’all recommend a picture profile setting that’s bright, with punchy color and nice blacks yet is broadcast ready? I primarily shoot HD422/50/1080/29.97p

Shaun Roemich September 9th, 2013 05:57 PM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
I just shot 44 hours on my new PMW200 using Alister's AC Real above and the ONLY niggle I have was that when using the Vortex Media Warm Cards (Warm 1), there is a significant magenta push... so I went back to using plain old white.

Looks GREAT!

Thanks Alister!

Jerry Porter September 9th, 2013 07:21 PM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
Wiil try these next week thanks!!

Andy Wilkinson January 18th, 2014 04:12 PM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles (& PMW-300)
 
Having just got my PMW-300 a few days ago (I just retired my EX3) I came across this thread when searching. As soon as I'm out of the thick of editing some urgent client work I'll be trying a few tips posted on here for sure.

Great info so far - thanks so much to all who have contributed.

Since the last post was a few months ago is there any updated info anyone is willing to share?

Tiago Cristovao January 20th, 2014 03:30 PM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
Hello guys.

I'm sorry but what is the real purpose of picture profile?

I've recently bought a PMW-200 to do some works (reporting work, interviews) and some environment shots.

But this picture profile is making me confuse, is it really necessary?


Thank you.

Andrew Smith May 9th, 2014 07:25 AM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
Tiago, the factory default colour that the camera records is a bit flat and doesn't make the most of what the camera can actually do. These profiles give you the option of selecting and changing the visual look of the footage you shoot.

Andrew

Niklas Lagstrom March 14th, 2016 01:28 AM

Re: Pmw 200 (&150) picture profiles
 
I will make a shoot with a PMW-200 and a Canon 5D mark2 or a mk3.
Is there any profiles you would recommend for a (near?) match for these two?


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