Slow-Motion wi Shutter set to SLS vs. Speed at DVinfo.net

Malcolm Hamilton · March 6th, 2013, 09:15 PM

Hi there,
I'm trying to come to grips with how to best get a nice look to some driving shots that I want to slow down.
I've set my System to 720/29.97 and my S&Q frame rate to 60.
And for these moving shots, I was thinking of using Slow Shutter at 16 frames.
But would the movement look a little less 'fluid' if I set my Shutter to SLS (instead of Speed) and dial it up to 8?
I want some fluidity, but if using Slow Shutter at 16 is a bit much, would setting Shutter to 8 be a good compromise, or does changing from Speed to SLS do something quite different to the look of a shot?
Thanks for any advice,
Malcolm

Matt Davis · March 7th, 2013, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malcolm Hamilton

I want some fluidity, but if using Slow Shutter at 16 is a bit much, would setting Shutter to 8 be a good compromise, or does changing from Speed to SLS do something quite different to the look of a shot?

The two modes (slow shutter and S&Q) are very possibly 'mutually exclusive' (I can't make them work together).

Yes, you can set the shutter to SLS in S&Q mode, but it's fixed to 'off'. The Slow Shutter mode is greyed out. If you're looking to smooth things out, try switching the shutter off.

I use the Slow Shutter for timelapse using the interval mode, rather than slomo. If one thinks about the way the accumulation shutter works, it makes those trails by adding frames together, therefore needs to capture a lot of frames - more than is possible to make slomo work.

There is a bit of software, or a plug-in, that can process video to obtain a similar effect but its name escapes me. Or just something like Re:vision twixtor..?

Alister Chapman · March 7th, 2013, 08:56 AM

IF you were to shoot at 60fps with an 8 frame shutter, this would be exactly the same as shooting at 30fps with a 4 frame shutter, because the frames would overlap. It's not going to smooth out your motion, it will make it jumpy but with blurred frames. To eliminate the jumps you would have to speed up the clip by 8x or 4x.

I would do as Matt suggested and treat the video in post.

Malcolm Hamilton · March 7th, 2013, 10:52 AM

Matt and Alister,
Thanks very much for your help with this (and Matt, you're right about S&Q and Slow Shutter not working together)—I'll go with your advice.
One more question (it's not related to S&Q or Shutter, but I hate to start another new PMW-200 thread): I had to change to UDF from FAT in the SYSTEM menu, to be able to use S&Q at 720p, and this caused my SxS card to get renamed to XDCAM 20070217_205553.
The weird thing is that I can't rename this SxS card on my desktop. I seem to be stuck with that name.
Can someone tell me how to go about renaming this card?
Thanks again,
Malcolm

Robin Probyn · March 8th, 2013, 07:18 AM

Yes seems that in UDF mode you cant change the card name..or if you do it reverts back to those numbers next time you put it in a reader anyway..

Doug Jensen · March 8th, 2013, 08:23 AM

You can change the card naming in UDF mode and FAT mode.
I can't explain the problem you guys are experiencing, but card naming works just fine for me. I can give a SxS or XQD card a custom name on my Mac -- and that name will stay in-effect no matter which camera I use it with or what setting changes I make on-board the camera. Putting it into a reader also makes no difference at all. The only thing that will effect the naming is if I reformat the card, and then the card name will revert back to "untitled".

Malcolm Hamilton · March 8th, 2013, 01:28 PM

Hi Doug and Robin. Very interesting. In case these details illuminate things:

I just tried again (popped my SxS card into the side of my MBP's ExpressCard slot) to double-check... and clicking on the card's desktop icon name doesn't allow me to change the name... it doesn't do anything, in fact. Nothing happens when I click on the name of the card.
When I choose Get Info, I see that the card's Format is listed as 'UFS' (when the card is in my camera it's listed as UDF). I also see that I do indeed have Read/Write privileges.

I should mention that this card behaved normally until I switched things up in my camera recently, so that I could shoot S&Q footage. As soon as I selected HD422 50, 720 29.97P in OTHERS/SYSTEM, I got a message on the lcd about the card in the camera, saying: "Cannot Use Media (A). Unsupported File System". I think I then chose FORMAT MEDIA, and formatted the card. It then worked for the S&Q shots I needed to get.

If I pop another card—that I haven't yet, in my PMW-200, re-formatted—into my MBP, I can change the name in the expected way, by clicking on the card's name. (according to the Get Info window, by the way, the format of this card is MS-DOS).

Only thing I can think to add is that I'm running Mountain Lion, in case that makes a difference.
The card that I can't rename is a Sony SxS PRO card, by the way.
Please let me know if any of this helps explain things.
Thanks very much,
Malcolm

Robin Probyn · March 8th, 2013, 03:52 PM

Had the same with the internal exp card slot..click made no difference.. with the card reader USB3 I can name a card but if card re formatted it clears the name.. as Doug says..

You are getting the cannot use media message because the card is in FAT format.. and you have to re format to UDF .. no big deal.. unless you have FAT footage you dont want to lose on the card of course !!

Same if you put a UDF format card into the camera and want to shoot FAT..

Doug Jensen · March 8th, 2013, 05:00 PM

I can't really troubleshoot the problem long-distance, but my instincts tell me that you do not have the current UDF drivers loaded on you Mac. I'll bet that would solve all your problems.

Pay special attention to:
"SxS Device Driver Version 1.05 and SxS UDF Driver Version 2.00 for Mac OS X | Release Notes"

Sony | Micro Site XDCAM

Malcolm Hamilton · March 9th, 2013, 09:49 AM

You were absolutely right, Doug.
I just installed the new Device and UDF drivers, and I my 32GB card is back to its former name.
Thanks so much for your help with this.
I'll try to keep up with the release of new drivers, in the future... I guess that means keeping an eye on this forum. It's too bad, in a way, that there wasn't a way of automatically being informed when a new updated driver is available (as there is with so many of the applications that I use), but I don't think this is possible.
Anyway, I'm up and running again, and I appreciate all the advice.
Regards,
Malcolm

Robin Probyn · March 9th, 2013, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Jensen

I can't really troubleshoot the problem long-distance, but my instincts tell me that you do not have the current UDF drivers loaded on you Mac. I'll bet that would solve all your problems.

Pay special attention to:
"SxS Device Driver Version 1.05 and SxS UDF Driver Version 2.00 for Mac OS X | Release Notes"

Sony | Micro Site XDCAM

Hi Doug

I have the latest UDF driver installed.. I can name a card.. but after reformat in camera the name goes.. not a big deal for my usage ..

I use the USB3 reader now so I believe I dont need the SXS device driver.. is working fine anyway..full 32GB card UDF is about 10 mins with TB ..CB with checker activated..

Thanks

Doug Jensen · March 9th, 2013, 10:17 PM

Hi Robin,

If you go back and read my last sentence in post #6 you'll see that it is normal for a card to lose it's custom name whenever you reformat it. There's no way to avoid that from happening when you reformat. You also lose all your picture profiles, camera data files, planning metadata files, and anything else that is stored on the card. This is why I have been telling people since 2007 not to reformat their cards if it can be avoided. In fact, I had some cards that were used hundreds of times but were never reformatted between early 2008 and the summer of 2012. However, now that I have to share cards with my PMW-200 (UDF) and my PMW-F3 (FAT only), I can no longer avoid reformatting cards and it adds a new level of complexity to my workflow that I don't like. I'd gladly have payed an extra couple thousand dollars or more if the F3 had been given UDF capability.

Regarding the UDF driver, if you don't have it installed, you should install it. There's no reason not to -- even if you aren't following the recommended management and backup procedures workflow with Content Browser.

Mastering the PMW-200-160-150-100 Camcorders

Doug

Robin Probyn · March 10th, 2013, 06:54 AM

Hi Doug

Yes I had remembered you said that..I was writing that more for Malcolm.On your good advice Ive been using XDCAM Browser and now Content browser always to down load cards with checker activated,for about a year now ,thanks for that tip.. I had come from using shotput pro with CF cards from a Nanoflash
On my new MBA,without the exp card slot,from what Ive read i dont need the SXS device driver.. my logic being less software to worry about the better,if I dont need it.. which seems to be the case..

Thanks again for your time..

March 6th, 2013, 09:15 PM	#1
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Slow-Motion wi Shutter set to SLS vs. Speed Hi there, I'm trying to come to grips with how to best get a nice look to some driving shots that I want to slow down. I've set my System to 720/29.97 and my S&Q frame rate to 60. And for these moving shots, I was thinking of using Slow Shutter at 16 frames. But would the movement look a little less 'fluid' if I set my Shutter to SLS (instead of Speed) and dial it up to 8? I want some fluidity, but if using Slow Shutter at 16 is a bit much, would setting Shutter to 8 be a good compromise, or does changing from Speed to SLS do something quite different to the look of a shot? Thanks for any advice, Malcolm

March 7th, 2013, 08:56 AM	#3
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Re: Slow-Motion wi Shutter set to SLS vs. Speed IF you were to shoot at 60fps with an 8 frame shutter, this would be exactly the same as shooting at 30fps with a 4 frame shutter, because the frames would overlap. It's not going to smooth out your motion, it will make it jumpy but with blurred frames. To eliminate the jumps you would have to speed up the clip by 8x or 4x. I would do as Matt suggested and treat the video in post. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

March 7th, 2013, 10:52 AM	#4
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Re: Slow-Motion wi Shutter set to SLS vs. Speed Matt and Alister, Thanks very much for your help with this (and Matt, you're right about S&Q and Slow Shutter not working together)—I'll go with your advice. One more question (it's not related to S&Q or Shutter, but I hate to start another new PMW-200 thread): I had to change to UDF from FAT in the SYSTEM menu, to be able to use S&Q at 720p, and this caused my SxS card to get renamed to XDCAM 20070217_205553. The weird thing is that I can't rename this SxS card on my desktop. I seem to be stuck with that name. Can someone tell me how to go about renaming this card? Thanks again, Malcolm

March 8th, 2013, 07:18 AM	#5
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Re: Slow-Motion wi Shutter set to SLS vs. Speed Yes seems that in UDF mode you cant change the card name..or if you do it reverts back to those numbers next time you put it in a reader anyway..

March 8th, 2013, 01:28 PM	#7
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	re: NOT ABLE TO RE-NAME SxS CARD Hi Doug and Robin. Very interesting. In case these details illuminate things: I just tried again (popped my SxS card into the side of my MBP's ExpressCard slot) to double-check... and clicking on the card's desktop icon name doesn't allow me to change the name... it doesn't do anything, in fact. Nothing happens when I click on the name of the card. When I choose Get Info, I see that the card's Format is listed as 'UFS' (when the card is in my camera it's listed as UDF). I also see that I do indeed have Read/Write privileges. I should mention that this card behaved normally until I switched things up in my camera recently, so that I could shoot S&Q footage. As soon as I selected HD422 50, 720 29.97P in OTHERS/SYSTEM, I got a message on the lcd about the card in the camera, saying: "Cannot Use Media (A). Unsupported File System". I think I then chose FORMAT MEDIA, and formatted the card. It then worked for the S&Q shots I needed to get. If I pop another card—that I haven't yet, in my PMW-200, re-formatted—into my MBP, I can change the name in the expected way, by clicking on the card's name. (according to the Get Info window, by the way, the format of this card is MS-DOS). Only thing I can think to add is that I'm running Mountain Lion, in case that makes a difference. The card that I can't rename is a Sony SxS PRO card, by the way. Please let me know if any of this helps explain things. Thanks very much, Malcolm

March 8th, 2013, 08:23 AM	#6
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,415	Re: Slow-Motion wi Shutter set to SLS vs. Speed You can change the card naming in UDF mode and FAT mode. I can't explain the problem you guys are experiencing, but card naming works just fine for me. I can give a SxS or XQD card a custom name on my Mac -- and that name will stay in-effect no matter which camera I use it with or what setting changes I make on-board the camera. Putting it into a reader also makes no difference at all. The only thing that will effect the naming is if I reformat the card, and then the card name will revert back to "untitled". __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

March 8th, 2013, 03:52 PM	#8
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Re: Slow-Motion wi Shutter set to SLS vs. Speed Had the same with the internal exp card slot..click made no difference.. with the card reader USB3 I can name a card but if card re formatted it clears the name.. as Doug says.. You are getting the cannot use media message because the card is in FAT format.. and you have to re format to UDF .. no big deal.. unless you have FAT footage you dont want to lose on the card of course !! Same if you put a UDF format card into the camera and want to shoot FAT..

March 8th, 2013, 05:00 PM	#9
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,415	Re: Slow-Motion wi Shutter set to SLS vs. Speed I can't really troubleshoot the problem long-distance, but my instincts tell me that you do not have the current UDF drivers loaded on you Mac. I'll bet that would solve all your problems. Pay special attention to: "SxS Device Driver Version 1.05 and SxS UDF Driver Version 2.00 for Mac OS X \| Release Notes" Sony \| Micro Site XDCAM __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

March 9th, 2013, 09:49 AM	#10
Malcolm Hamilton Major Player Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 844	Re: Slow-Motion wi Shutter set to SLS vs. Speed You were absolutely right, Doug. I just installed the new Device and UDF drivers, and I my 32GB card is back to its former name. Thanks so much for your help with this. I'll try to keep up with the release of new drivers, in the future... I guess that means keeping an eye on this forum. It's too bad, in a way, that there wasn't a way of automatically being informed when a new updated driver is available (as there is with so many of the applications that I use), but I don't think this is possible. Anyway, I'm up and running again, and I appreciate all the advice. Regards, Malcolm

March 9th, 2013, 10:17 PM	#12
Doug Jensen Vortex Media Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,415	Re: Slow-Motion wi Shutter set to SLS vs. Speed Hi Robin, If you go back and read my last sentence in post #6 you'll see that it is normal for a card to lose it's custom name whenever you reformat it. There's no way to avoid that from happening when you reformat. You also lose all your picture profiles, camera data files, planning metadata files, and anything else that is stored on the card. This is why I have been telling people since 2007 not to reformat their cards if it can be avoided. In fact, I had some cards that were used hundreds of times but were never reformatted between early 2008 and the summer of 2012. However, now that I have to share cards with my PMW-200 (UDF) and my PMW-F3 (FAT only), I can no longer avoid reformatting cards and it adds a new level of complexity to my workflow that I don't like. I'd gladly have payed an extra couple thousand dollars or more if the F3 had been given UDF capability. Regarding the UDF driver, if you don't have it installed, you should install it. There's no reason not to -- even if you aren't following the recommended management and backup procedures workflow with Content Browser. Mastering the PMW-200-160-150-100 Camcorders Doug __________________ Vortex Media http://www.vortexmedia.com/ Sony FS7, F55, and XDCAM training videos, field guides, and other production tools

March 10th, 2013, 06:54 AM	#13
Robin Probyn Major Player Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Tokyo Posts: 590	Re: Slow-Motion wi Shutter set to SLS vs. Speed Hi Doug Yes I had remembered you said that..I was writing that more for Malcolm.On your good advice Ive been using XDCAM Browser and now Content browser always to down load cards with checker activated,for about a year now ,thanks for that tip.. I had come from using shotput pro with CF cards from a Nanoflash On my new MBA,without the exp card slot,from what Ive read i dont need the SXS device driver.. my logic being less software to worry about the better,if I dont need it.. which seems to be the case.. Thanks again for your time..