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Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old May 22nd, 2013, 07:59 AM   #16
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Re: Pmw-200 lcd

Ah, okay Doug....got it. Lazy reading on my part.
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Old May 24th, 2013, 09:49 PM   #17
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Re: Pmw-200 lcd

Hi Doug, here is a screen shot from the camera, the day was overcast, all of the image looked to the exposed ok, yet the dress and the whites are overexposed, and on a sunny day its even worse. Did you have a way of stopping the withes to blow out ? or a setting in the camera that i could try, re gamma setting , knee and so on... Thanks.
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Old May 25th, 2013, 12:05 AM   #18
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Re: Pmw-200 lcd

Robert,
Probably the wrong thread for your question, but you may want to start by trying your hypergammas to see their effect. Get Doug's DvD if you don't already have it.
Remember, the sensor has a limited dynamic range (for increased dynamic range you could go with an F3 or F5/F55.) - but the dynamic range of the sensor is still greater than that of the recording format. Hypergammas help you capture more of the dynamic range, but bright whites can still blow out. That's why traditionally bright whites are not part of the allowed palette on dramatic shoots. If you absolutely want to keep detail in your whites, then expose to protect them. Use your Zebras to make sure nothing is exposed at or over 100%. If there are really bright areas and you adjust for them, your skin tones may become darker. You may then need to integrate color correction timing into your postproduction workflow.
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Old May 25th, 2013, 05:28 AM   #19
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Re: Pmw-200 lcd

Doug,

I completely understand what you saying. But it depents on creative desicion in each project. When I have only one/few outside shot on project I dont want to have it blue because of cloudy day.

I just showed one case, but there is many similar situation - you may go from one room to another... And also we often work with 2 camcoder (200 and EX1R) and I was confused many time. I thought that colleage forgot to WB, when I saw both LCDs side by side.

My point is not about when WB but about nesessity to have at least roughly balanced LCD/VF.
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Old May 25th, 2013, 06:17 AM   #20
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Re: Pmw-200 lcd

Thanks Dave, the main question was about the white balance, and LCDs on the PMW-200. The Imaged looked ok on the day on the LCD, but in post there were a lot of over exposed clips. So I am going to have to learn more about trusting the setting in camera rather than what I see on the LCD.

Douglas, thanks for the white balance info, shot a concert tonight, used the white card, and balanced all 4 cameras, what a difference in LCD screens, I now know I can't trust them, I still say the EX1 had the best LCD out of the 200,EX3. I am taking your DVD away with me and will re watch it on my holidays.
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Old May 25th, 2013, 08:33 AM   #21
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Re: Pmw-200 lcd

@ Robert
If your white's are blown out then then you have over-exposed the image. Having a good picture profile and knowing how to setup and use the zebras will make it much easier to avoid blown out whites and still keep the rest of the picture looking great. Believe me, it not only is possible, it is quite easy in practice. BTW, if you're shooting with the camera's factory-default settings, you're never going to get consistently good looking images from the camera and blowing out the whites will always be a real problem.

@Dave
As always, a great post. Thanks for joining the conversation.

@Lukas
If you follow the procedures I have suggested you won't have blue video on a cloudy day. If that's what you're getting, you're doing something wrong.

@Robert, again
Learning to trust the camera, after you have followed proper procedure for setting white balance and exposure, regardless of what your eyes are telling you from the LCD, is like a pilot flying in clouds and trusting his instruments rather than relying on his "perception" of what the plane is doing. Too many cameramen shoot video like JFK Jr. few his small plane, and that is not good. I hope you like the DVD because it will answer many of your questions.
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Old May 25th, 2013, 01:42 PM   #22
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Re: Pmw-200 lcd

White balance always used to confuse me before. I normally got it right as I used to depend on the ATW on my old Panasonic HVX200. It looked good to me.

A few years back however, I started believing in myself. So I am actually using the same procedure as Doug. Glad to see others are doing the same as me. That should mean I am doing something right....

However, I would like to ask Doug why you are shooting at 5800K during daytime whereas the preset is normally 5600K. Is this a matter of how the picture profile in the camera is set up or just personal preference? I actually used to shoot 5900K on my EX1, beacuse that looked good to me. Not sure why I went back to 5600K.

I asked a colleague of mine in the film industry, and he always uses either 3200K or 5500K. I am not sure why there would be a difference of 300K between all of us.

And by the way, I really recommend Doug`s warmcards.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 07:07 AM   #23
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Re: Pmw-200 lcd

Hi Svein, it's nice to hear that you're getting good results with the same techniques I'm using.

As I mentioned in an earlier post (#11), the value I use for the outdoor preset varies from 5600K to 6000K depending on the model of camera. As you know, not all cameras look the same, so where 5600K might be the right choice for camera A, 6000K or some other number might be the better choice for camera B. Plus, it is a matter of personal preference. 5800K is generally my default value.

Just to repeat a point I made earlier, I think your colleague is wrong to ever use a preset of 3200. And I don't understand why Sony still uses 3200 as the default preset on their cameras. Bad settings right out of the box! Anytime someone is shooting under man-made lighting a manual white balance should be set because hardly any indoor lights are actually 3200 degrees, and with today's mix of tungsten bulbs, LED fixtures, fluorescent tubes, compact fluorescent bulbs, and other types of lights in all kinds of variations of warm, cool, daylight, etc. it is impossible to know what temperature the lighting really is. But the solution is simple -- white balance on a white card or WarmCard and you're good to go.

BTW, for anyone who is in the Boston area, I'll be doing a couple of workshops on Friday May 31st.

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Old May 26th, 2013, 10:40 PM   #24
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Re: Pmw-200 lcd

When I learnt shooting video with a broadcast camera, there were only cameras with black and white crt viewfinders and no secondary color display. Hehe, I just realized this sounds like grandpa telling stories from the sixties, but it was only like ten years ago.

However, it taught me rather well not to rely on a display for judging color temperature and hue. Maybe you could go practice with your display set to black and white? I bet you'll be able to precisely guess color temperatures after a while, without the camera!

At some point you'll be able to know exactly where you need to make a white balance to get the look you like, even in horrible mixed-light situations. And then turn the color on your screen back on, but keep in mind this is just an additional hint, not a perfectly accurate monitor.

And by the way if your cameras manual white balance adjustment doesn't get the results you like, but you would still like to be able to make the white balance a little warmer (and don't have a warm card): hold a 1/8 or 1/4 CTB in front of your lens while white balancing.
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Old May 26th, 2013, 10:50 PM   #25
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Re: Pmw-200 lcd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Svein Rune Skilnand View Post
I asked a colleague of mine in the film industry, and he always uses either 3200K or 5500K.
That is pretty much the classic way to do it: film was either 3200K or 5600K, you couldn't just dial something in, it was one of the two!

I think you don't always have to perfectly white balance every shot when you're shooting documentary - a little color can be interesting! However it shouldn't be the wrong color (=blueish) on peoples faces, that almost never looks good...
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