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Sony XDCAM EX Pro Handhelds
Sony PMW-300, PXW-X200, PXW-X180 (back to EX3 & EX1) recording to SxS flash memory.


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Old November 7th, 2013, 02:12 AM   #1
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PMW-300 Questions

Hello All.
I'm about to sell my 4 year old EX-3 and purchase a new PMW-300K1
I have a few questions regarding the new model:

1. The XVAC upgrade that is planned for 2014 - what will it bring?
Obviously the camera can't record 4K, so will it be a higher bitrate? maybe 4:4:4? any info on that?
2. This question is directly linked to the first one - if the upgrade won't bring 4:4:4 recording in-camera -
I am considering on buying an external monitor/recorder - the Convergent Design Odyssey7Q.
In order to record 4:4:4 these recorders require 3G-SDI signal from the camera. Will the PMW-300 have this output option?
3. In case this will not be an option (I will not need a recorder to record 4:2:2 since the camera does that) -
Any recommendations for a good field monitor? I am considering a 7" BON or TV Logic.

Many questions...
Any help is greatly appreciated...

Arbel.
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Old November 7th, 2013, 10:38 AM   #2
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

Arbel ~

It will bring you XAVC 10-bit 422 @100-mbit. That's the latest I have heard to date. No 444 for sure. See attached brochure.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney
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Old November 7th, 2013, 02:57 PM   #3
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

The camera ships with 50mb/sec enabled. 4:2:2.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 07:17 AM   #4
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

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Originally Posted by Christopher Young View Post
Arbel ~

It will bring you XAVC 10-bit 422 @100-mbit. That's the latest I have heard to date. No 444 for sure. See attached brochure.

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney
Thanks for the info Chris.
If that is the case, then the XAVC should be a much better codec if it's worth an upgrade just to double the bit rate but no increase in bit depth to 12 bit.
In any way we should start stocking up on memory cards...
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Old November 8th, 2013, 12:02 PM   #5
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

On the internal recording side that's an increase from 8 bit (XDcam codecs are 8 bit) to 10 bit. So it may pay off if you're thinking about doing some elaborate grading. Plus of course the better usability of the viewfinder and a bunch of other improved features....
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Old November 8th, 2013, 03:13 PM   #6
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

The sensors see no benefit from increasing from 10 to 12 bit since they are by design noisy compared to larger Super35 sensors.

4:4:4 however may be possible, but the internal circuitry only processes at 4:2:2 and outputs over SDI at 4:2:2.

Specs also don't indicate it will support 1080p60, because that requires 200Mbps XAVC in order to record. I'm holding off purchasing this since by the time the XAVC upgrade comes, only recording 30p would still kind of be laughed at with the move to 60p.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 04:25 PM   #7
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

Hope not.. 50/60p looks terrible..
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Old November 8th, 2013, 04:42 PM   #8
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

4:4:4 out would require 3G HDSDI and I don't know that the HDSDI is 3G capable.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 05:17 PM   #9
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

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Originally Posted by Robin Probyn View Post
Hope not.. 50/60p looks terrible..
Not everyone shoots cinematic content - for verité and sports content, 60P looks phenomenal.

What we DO need is an appropriate consumer delivery system for 60P...
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Old November 8th, 2013, 07:05 PM   #10
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

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Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
Not everyone shoots cinematic content - for verité and sports content, 60P looks phenomenal.

What we DO need is an appropriate consumer delivery system for 60P...
That is looking less and less likely as broadcast standards may skip over 1080p60 and head straight to 4K60p.

The only possible delivery method is AVCHD 2.0, and that's not a BD spec. Standard BD spec limits to 1080i60 or 1080p24. To deliver 30p on a BD, you have to use PsF.
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Old November 8th, 2013, 07:26 PM   #11
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

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Originally Posted by Jack Zhang View Post
That is looking less and less likely as broadcast standards may skip over 1080p60 and head straight to 4K60p.
You will notice I didn't SPECIFICALLY list 1080P60, although it would be easy to imply.

I'm just getting REALLY tired of the ciné folks insisting that only 24P matters.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 04:15 PM   #12
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

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That is looking less and less likely as broadcast standards may skip over 1080p60 and head straight to 4K60p.
I think it's highly likely that next generation broadcast standards may go even higher - 4K at even higher framerates - 120fps, maybe more. I certainly agree that it's highly unlikely that they'll go through any change solely to limit to 1080p/60.

Setting that as the standard doesn't therefore mean all transmissions would have to be such - it would still allow transmissions in all current standards, plus 4K at 24-60fps, let alone 1080p/60.

Before anyone talks about bandwidth, then doubling the framerate does not mean doubling transmitted data rate, assuming an interframe system. Such relies on keeping the time period between I-frames the same (say 1/2 sec), so you're only increasing the number of difference frames. Since they are of smaller size than I-frames, then datarate does not increase in proportion to framerate.

To pick up on Jacks earlier point, then is there any possibility the PMW300 may have a long-GOP mode of XAVC? To allow 60p mode with much less than 200Mbs?
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Old November 9th, 2013, 06:43 PM   #13
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

my pmw-300 arrived
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Old November 10th, 2013, 05:43 AM   #14
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
Not everyone shoots cinematic content - for verité and sports content, 60P looks phenomenal.

What we DO need is an appropriate consumer delivery system for 60P...
Sure personal preference .. I would agree for sports only 50/60p could be a bonus.. but otherwise it really looks very "electronic " and sort of cheap somehow.. I,d hate to have those frames rates imposed on me.. after all the effort thats gone into making video look nicer..
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Old November 10th, 2013, 06:37 AM   #15
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Re: PMW-300 Questions

Well, as far a the "Look" of 25p/50p video goes -
we have been somewhat of "brainwashed" by decades of filmaking technology to think stroby video looks "better" and more "cinematic".
When you come to think about it, when we move our head from side to side, the image our eyes see does not strobe in any way whatsoever.
I admit to the sin that to me interlaced and 50p video also looks "cheap" and not professional.
But the only reason for that is what I grasp as "quality" look, and nothing else.

That being said, I think that I will take a while before the 25p/30p cameras become outdated, and after 4 years of loyal service I believe the EX-3 can step aside with great respect,
and I'm pretty confident the PMW-300 will bring an equal (if not better) ROI for my type of cinematographers.
And after the answers from Alister and others - Would an external recorder like the Odyssey 7Q bring any use coupled with the PMW-300?
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