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Old February 26th, 2014, 03:43 PM   #1
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Noisy EX3 shots

I lately notice a lot of noise in the dark parts of my shots. As you can see in enclosed still.

This is shot with the EX3 gain on 0 - 1080i - shutter speed on 60 - using the pp Doug prefers.
Normally I shoot on -3db and shutter speed off but al so then there is noise visual.

Any ideas?

TIA
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Old February 26th, 2014, 03:48 PM   #2
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

Here is the still
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Old February 26th, 2014, 03:56 PM   #3
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

If you are talking about the noise in the blue seat back, that looks pretty typical of an EX3 in a mid-to-low light scenario to me.

The 35mbps codec is a reasonably noisy one, especially when compared to the 50mbps mode of the PMW200/300 cameras.
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Old February 26th, 2014, 04:04 PM   #4
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

Hi,

Yeah it's shot in a low light situation. But I had the idea that if I could hold the gain on 0 with iris on 1.9 it would be ok. No picture profile can change this I think.

Attached another still.
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Noisy EX3 shots-test2.jpg  
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Old February 26th, 2014, 05:03 PM   #5
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

Did you by chance shoot this with CINE4? That gamma curve lifts the dark areas and will make the noise a lot more noticable.

To minimize the look of the noise in the blacks it is best to use a gamma curve that lowers the blacks such as CINE1.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 02:19 AM   #6
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

Yes it's on CINE4. It is the recommended setting for overall shooting in the Field Guide I have. But I'll have a look at a setting which will handle low light better.

Thanks.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 07:53 AM   #7
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

CINE4 is better to boost the bottom end which leads to a better image in low light. Noise will be more apparent using that curve. Use it only when necessary.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 04:17 PM   #8
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

A couple of things to note from what I've noticed with the EX3.

The EXCAM 35mbps codec is the issue with the blacks even at -3db.
The camera sensor exhibits quite a bit of noise even when we shoot uncompressed (green screen) via Kona3 and a raid.

But, if you can record ProRes to an external recorder, the blacks look much cleaner.

If you have the wherewithal, neat video does a pretty good job of cleaning up that noise.

Chris has some good suggestions, and perhaps some CC might also be sufficient.

As always, WMMV.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 07:23 PM   #9
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

The difference you're seeing in picture quality when using an external 10-bit capable recorder is mostly due to 4:2:2 vs. 4:2:0 and 8-bit vs. 10 bit -- and not really so much the bit rate. It is nearly impossible to see any visual difference between 35Mbps, 50Mps or even 100 Mbps if all other things are equal.

So, the important difference between internal recording on a EX3 and a PMW-200 is really the 4:2:0 vs. 4:2:2 -- the higher 50 Mpbs bit rate is just icing on the cake but doesn't make a big difference.
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Last edited by Doug Jensen; February 27th, 2014 at 07:39 PM. Reason: fixed a misspelling
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Old February 27th, 2014, 07:35 PM   #10
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
So, the importance difference between internal recording on a EX3 and a PMW-200 is really the 4:2:0 vs. 4:2:2 -- the higher 50 Mpbs bit rate is just icing on the cake but doesn't make a big difference.
To be fair, Doug, the 50mbps FACILITATES the extra information PROVIDED by the 4:2:2.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 07:37 PM   #11
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

No, they are two independent settings. I can easily record 4:2:2 at any bit rate I want with the appropriate external recorder or a software encoder on a computer. So, sorry, they have nothing to do with each other.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 07:40 PM   #12
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

They DO with the XDCam codec set.

35 mbps is 4:2:0 and 50 mbps is 4:2:2.

I'm SPECIFICALLY referencing your SECOND paragraph in your above statement regarding INTERNAL recording.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug Jensen View Post
So, the important difference between internal recording on a EX3 and a PMW-200 is really the 4:2:0 vs. 4:2:2 -- the higher 50 Mpbs bit rate is just icing on the cake but doesn't make a big difference.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 07:54 PM   #13
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
The 35mbps codec is a reasonably noisy one, especially when compared to the 50mbps mode of the PMW200/300 cameras.
I am referencing your comments above which is completely wrong. There is no difference in noise between 35Mpbs and 50Mbps when everything else is equal.
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Old February 27th, 2014, 07:55 PM   #14
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
They DO with the XDCam codec set.

35 mbps is 4:2:0 and 50 mbps is 4:2:2.

I'm SPECIFICALLY referencing your SECOND paragraph in your above statement regarding INTERNAL recording.

Yes, and I stand by that statement 100%. What is your issue with it?
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Old February 27th, 2014, 08:02 PM   #15
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Re: Noisy EX3 shots

There is no way to record 4:2:2 XDCam at 35mbps.

Therefore the statement that "the higher 50 Mpbs bit rate is just icing on the cake but doesn't make a big difference." certainly appears to me to be double-talk and erroneous. One cannot record 35mbps 4:2:2 XDCam and to GET 4:2:2 XDCam one needs to record 50mbps, the additional 15mbps being allocated to the additional colour information unless I am seriously misinformed.

ADDENDUM: not QUITE as simple as that - the 15mbps is very likely allocated not JUST to the extra colour but I would argue the additional colour depth certainly makes up the lion's share...
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